FS650C vs. FS650E

Boris,

You are welcome - glad it helped you understand the real issues.

I personally, wouldn't rush to buy the open silencer - I suspect you will have more than enough motor for awhile. The e comes with very tall gearing so you can 'double your grin factor' by dropping a tooth on the counter shaft (spare sprockets comes with a new bike, by the way) - much cheaper than a new silencer.

Cheers and let us know what you end up with.

Mark

RE: Re: FSc - FSe

Mark, still you online... What from is info about 70 hp? I heard a little less than 60 (about 56) on rear wheel.

I personally, wouldn't rush to buy the open silencer - I suspect you will have more than enough motor for awhile. The e comes with very tall gearing so you can 'double your grin factor' by dropping a tooth on the counter shaft (spare sprockets comes with a new bike, by the way) - much cheaper than a new silencer

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Yes, i know, but i love this sound. Why i take away this fun for myself? And any power become not enough soon. I mean tarmac of course, for dirt this power is too much anyway.
Mark, what from is info about 70 hp? I heard a little less than 60 (about 56) on rear wheel.

Re: RE: Re: FSc - FSe

...

I think there is literature that states 72hp but I am not sure of this.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge will confirm the rear wheel hp of a 650 ....

I have no way to dyno mine, and a direct comparison to my SMC by the seat of the pants method is pointless as there is almost 50lbs weight difference...

I think you will be pleasantly surprised how the stock Berg winds up and sounds with a stock silencer... You are in for a big awakening coming from a LC4 640E

Cheers

Mark

a search for 650 'and' hp yields this thread

http://www.husaberg.org/index.php?name= ... ght=650+hp

chilledspode said:

I think there is literature that states 72hp but I am not sure of this.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge will confirm the rear wheel hp of a 650 ....

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I've seen literature claiming 62hp for the 650's (it's really a 628cc). Maybe that was 62hp at the crank.

Mine rear wheel dyno results were 56hp and 43ft/lbs of torque.

Oh which one indeed....

Get the "e" version because you can take all the bits off it to make it a "c" and all you need to buy is a 5 inch rear rim and have it laced to the existing hub BUT with heavy duty spokes. The original spokes on a 4.25" cannot handle to forces if you slide it - I used to get about three broken spokes each session I rode until they were upgraded.

As for the engine differences, jetting is restricted on the "e" for emissions purposes, both noise and gases. You just need to remove the throttle limiter and re-jet.

When I bought my 650c I had the choice of a close ratio gearbox - I don't know whether this is still the case whereas the "e" version had the wide ratio gearbox. The difference is in 6th gear only, but in racing you'd have the close ratio any day!

Exhaust system. The "c" comes with a straight through silencer and the "e" with the enduro silencer but in my tests there was never more than about 1hp between them. In the latest tests I actually got more out of the enduro system than the original 8O

70hp? - NOT in a million years.

You might hope to get 55 at the rear wheel, 60 odd with a good exhaust system, 63 with a few modifications. I have heard rumours that with some work you can get it up to 69, but that is grenade territory. But remember, it is not about peak horsepower anyway, it is about drivability - the power curve AND the torque curve which is the important bit when it comes to acceleration.

For that the standard exhaust system does a remarkably good job.

Hope this helps.

All the best,
Simon

Simon - I always thought the 72hp number a bit high...

What I find interesting about the information you provided is that in real terms, my 625SMC is likely very similar to the Berg in power output (55-60) and that means all the difference in performance is due to the 40 less pounds the berg has to hump around.

I wasn't aware of the tranny differences between the models, but it makes sence.

The dealer installed the Akra slip on silencer before I bought the bike - have you any experience on how it performs on a otherwise stock but jetted motor? Just curious - I am happy with how it is running but it is still rich and I'll chase that this summer...

Cheers

Mark

chilledspode said:

The dealer installed the Akra slip on silencer before I bought the bike - have you any experience on how it performs on a otherwise stock but jetted motor? Just curious - I am happy with how it is running but it is still rich and I'll chase that this summer...

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Hey Mark,

Of course the Akro slip on should provide some additional power. I have only tested the full akro system (dyno chart available in my gallery) which gave about 60 on a 2003 644cc engine. I would hazard a guess at 57-58 with the slip on versus 56 for the original exhaust. It might be one or two more horses for an 04 engine.

In my experience the restriction is not just in the enduro silencer but in the header and collectors - you need fatter pipes through there to get the power - I've had 63hp on my engine with a good tapered set of exhaust pipes.

Hope this helps,
Simon

Simon

Yes that does help - thanks

Last Q: in your opinion what is the hp difference between equal 644 vs 628 motors?

I assume the older larger displacement (longer stroke?) motor had a nice flatter hp/torque curve...

Cheers

Mark

chilledspode said:

You are in for a big awakening coming from a LC4 640E

Cheers

Mark

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After LC4 i had YZ450, so not directly from 640E .

supertireguy said:

I've seen literature claiming 62hp for the 650's (it's really a 628cc). Maybe that was 62hp at the crank.

Mine rear wheel dyno results were 56hp and 43ft/lbs of torque.

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I know exactly about Ducati only (claiming power is at the rear wheel). Can't say for sure about Berg, but i guess 62 at the crank nevertheless. Another way it's too much more than comparesed models of other manufacturers. But i'm not Bergboy yet, i can't sure.

Get the "e" version because you can take all the bits off it to make it a "c" and all you need to buy is a 5 inch rear rim and have it laced to the existing hub BUT with heavy duty spokes. The original spokes on a 4.25" cannot handle to forces if you slide it - I used to get about three broken spokes each session I rode until they were upgraded.

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Good idea, Simon, it's cheaper than buy complete wheel. And very important remarke about spokes.

As for the engine differences, jetting is restricted on the "e" for emissions purposes, both noise and gases. You just need to remove the throttle limiter and re-jet.

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Aha! Somebody wrote to me earlier, jetkit for openversion making comes with "E" bike, right?

When I bought my 650c I had the choice of a close ratio gearbox - I don't know whether this is still the case whereas the "e" version had the wide ratio gearbox. The difference is in 6th gear only, but in racing you'd have the close ratio any day!

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Even Goran forget to write about it. That's what i told about, never find all differences out still ask competent peaple. Bilds and officials info never give all details.
Are you sure the difference is only 6th gear? But even only this is not so good. :?

Exhaust system. The "c" comes with a straight through silencer and the "e" with the enduro silencer but in my tests there was never more than about 1hp between them. In the latest tests I actually got more out of the enduro system than the original

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Sorry for stupid question. Did you select jetsizes for every exghaustsystem when tests them? Maybe this is the reason of strange results :?:

You might hope to get 55 at the rear wheel, 60 odd with a good exhaust system, 63 with a few modifications. I have heard rumours that with some work you can get it up to 69, but that is grenade territory. But remember, it is not about peak horsepower anyway, it is about drivability - the power curve AND the torque curve which is the important bit when it comes to acceleration.

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Absolutely! But only if you are not dragracer.

Hope this helps

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For sure. I'm very very thankful.

What I find interesting about the information you provided is that in real terms, my 625SMC is likely very similar to the Berg in power output (55-60) and that means all the difference in performance is due to the 40 less pounds the berg has to hump around.

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Mark, i'm almost sure the difference is not only the weight. KTM for sure claime power at the crank, so what KTM has at the crank, Berg has at rear wheel.
How i see 640E engine on your bike. This is the same 621cc SC engine but with balanser shaft, restricted muffler, intermediate sparkcatcher-muffler and afterburner system (connecting of head exghaust cannals and intake cannel, sorry for my cheap english).
What from 56-60 hp? No more than 50 in stock version. Something of nearly 60 had full racing open version w/o balancer shaft atc, when they produce it yet. Heaters pipes were separate almost to muffler on that one, if you remember.
I wrote already, i was tyred take all of it off from bike and change it to open version's components, i'v tryed about 5-7 variants jetsizes, of course has many TRings and anyway it run slowlier, than full enduroracing same displacement's machines. Even slowlier, than 450 full cross machines, like Yamaha YZ450 and only probably similar like Yamaha WR426. Unfortunetly like that.

The dealer installed the Akra slip on silencer before I bought the bike - have you any experience on how it performs on a otherwise stock but jetted motor?

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I can't say when i install full racing exghaust i feel much more power, but mixture get cheap, that's for sure. I guess it's mean some power to add, anyway.

I've had 63hp on my engine with a good tapered set of exhaust pipes.

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For sure that's very very respectable.

Here is the link to my 650 dyno plot,
http://www.husaberg.org/index.php?set_a ... _photo.php

The dyno operator suggests that to get a Dynojet number, multiply by 1.45 which equates to about 62 rwhp. Not bad for a stock motor, carefully jetted to suit a modded standard mufler. Look at the difference between standard, with Lineaweaver jet and needle kit, and after, still with the Lineaweaver needle, its+ 30%. Seriously fast, and it wasn't slow before.

Steve

chilledspode said:

Last Q: in your opinion what is the hp difference between equal 644 vs 628 motors?

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Hey Mark,

I double checked figures yesterday down at the dyno and actually there is very little in it between the 644 and 628 engines. You still get about 56 at the rear wheel and almost the same torque.

Next time I'm down there I'll see if I can get a copy of the charts.

Cheers,
Simon

Boryamba said:

Aha! Somebody wrote to me earlier, jetkit for openversion making comes with "E" bike, right?

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Yes, the Euro emmissions kit that they come with restricts throttle opening and jet size, you just need to buy the bigger jets and de-restrict the throttle - which a lot of dealers will do for you.

Boryamba said:

Are you sure the difference is only 6th gear? But even only this is not so good. :?

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Yes, sixth gear only if it is still the difference. On the road the wr gearbox is absolutely fine!

Boryamba said:

Sorry for stupid question. Did you select jetsizes for every exghaustsystem when tests them? Maybe this is the reason of strange results :?:

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Absolutely, I never skimp on set-up and testing. The strange results are most likely due to tyre differences.

If I use a race slick for testing, there might be about 1-2hp difference between a Michelin and Dunlop slick depending on temperature.

If I then put on a knobbly road tyre like an Avon Distanza I will get result that are about 4 horsepower down.

It's not that they perform less well on circuit, it's the way they perform on the dyno roller.

Boryamba said:

For sure. I'm very very thankful.

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You're very welcome,
Simon

Simon said:

chilledspode said:

Last Q: in your opinion what is the hp difference between equal 644 vs 628 motors?

Click to expand...

Hey Mark,

I double checked figures yesterday down at the dyno and actually there is very little in it between the 644 and 628 engines. You still get about 56 at the rear wheel and almost the same torque.

Next time I'm down there I'll see if I can get a copy of the charts.

Cheers,
Simon

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Thanks Simon - not what I expected...

Mark

mark

what thaty means is that the 16cc is lost in trying to squeeze down the same ports and through the some holes etc. it's not that hard to work out - to me anyway.

regards

Taffy

Yes, the Euro emmissions kit that they come with restricts throttle opening and jet size, you just need to buy the bigger jets and de-restrict the throttle - which a lot of dealers will do for you.

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Do you mean the limitator of throttlemove? I'm able to remove it myself yet.

Absolutely, I never skimp on set-up and testing. The strange results are most likely due to tyre differences.

If I use a race slick for testing, there might be about 1-2hp difference between a Michelin and Dunlop slick depending on temperature.

If I then put on a knobbly road tyre like an Avon Distanza I will get result that are about 4 horsepower down.

It's not that they perform less well on circuit, it's the way they perform on the dyno roller

Click to expand...

Hmmm. Very interesting, that the resistance to running plays so big role.