70 degree valve check/adjustment

Garrison said:

Fantastic write-up. Thanks very much. (I could have used this when I did mine last month!) Like you, I just had one to adjust.

One point on the cam removal though; It's just that one bolt on the little bracket on the cam sprocket that holds it in place. Then you just slide it to the left side about two cm to be able to lift the rocker and grab the shim. (I used a magnet). No need to remove the cam chain. Nice and easy.

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So this prevents you from screwing up the timing, right? If the chain is never actually removed from the cam?

the_viking said:

Garrison said:

Fantastic write-up. Thanks very much. (I could have used this when I did mine last month!) Like you, I just had one to adjust.

One point on the cam removal though; It's just that one bolt on the little bracket on the cam sprocket that holds it in place. Then you just slide it to the left side about two cm to be able to lift the rocker and grab the shim. (I used a magnet). No need to remove the cam chain. Nice and easy.

Click to expand...

So this prevents you from screwing up the timing, right? If the chain is never actually removed from the cam?

Click to expand...

That is correct. But you should still remove the cam chain tensioner (be it stock, Dirt Tricks, or DJH) to release pressure on the cam chain and avoid scraping cam bearing surfaces, giving yourself enough slack to work, etc.

The other trick, after locating TDC and using your crankshaft fixing bolt to locate and hold things in place ... is to put a small drop of paint or white-out on the cam chain link that lines up with the locating dimples on the cam and cam tower. That way, you know exactly when to line up the cam chain on the cam gear ... makes it really easy-peezy. And if you've done all that - it's 5 seconds to slip the cam out and have easy access to everything.

Cheers! E-Ticket

Sorry! My bad - you did say you needed to remove the cam chain tensioner, not the cam chain. I misread it first time through.

Still - that's just one more bolt

Thanks guys! Will be doing my own valve check soonish, this thread has helped a ton. I'm still not sure I'm confident enough to pull the cam, but we'll see. I had my valves adjusted by the shop at 15 hours, so I'm hoping they'll be in spec and I won't have to worry about it...

This would be a good sticky thread candidate!!

the_viking said:

Thanks guys! Will be doing my own valve check soonish, this thread has helped a ton. I'm still not sure I'm confident enough to pull the cam, but we'll see. I had my valves adjusted by the shop at 15 hours, so I'm hoping they'll be in spec and I won't have to worry about it...

This would be a good sticky thread candidate!!

Click to expand...

Pulling the cam sounds scarier than it actually is. Remember, it's not a twin-cam setup where you have pull bearing caps off and retorque. Once you have your TDC, fixing bolt in place, and mark your timing chain ... then it's simply removing the cam chain tensioner, removing the camshaft fixing bolt/plate ... and the cam simply slides out of it's bearings. Slide it out far enough to have it come of the bearing ... and the cam drops down slightly and you simply lift the cam chain off of the cam gear ... and ta-da! ... you're sitting there holding your cam.

While this isn't a detailed step-by-step valve adjust - the following pictorial on the '08 KTM cam/ADC issue with give you some more pictures to make it easy to visusalize. And yes, it's a Katoom ... but the same head/cam/valves are what is on the late-model Hooseyburgers:

http://www.omraoffroad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5794&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Cheers! E=Ticket

I went one step easier: I zip tied my cam chain to the cam sprocket, and then just slid out the cam enough to lift the rocker.

To those who are a bit nervous about this procedure, this was also my first time adjusting valves. It went really well, with nothing perplexing. I think I looked at a couple of youtube videos of this procedure on generic bikes as well before diving in. Now that I've done it once I think the second time would be a whole lot quicker. The only pain for me was having to remove the stator cover to advance the engine, as my Rekluse doesn't allow it to rotate with the rear wheel. Of course, I damaged the gasket while I was at it. Maybe I should have a machine shop create an access plug, as one lister described previously in an excellent post.

Garrison said:

I went one step easier: I zip tied my cam chain to the cam sprocket, and then just slid out the cam enough to lift the rocker.

To those who are a bit nervous about this procedure, this was also my first time adjusting valves. It went really well, with nothing perplexing. I think I looked at a couple of youtube videos of this procedure on generic bikes as well before diving in. Now that I've done it once I think the second time would be a whole lot quicker. The only pain for me was having to remove the stator cover to advance the engine, as my Rekluse doesn't allow it to rotate with the rear wheel. Of course, I damaged the gasket while I was at it. Maybe I should have a machine shop create an access plug, as one lister described previously in an excellent post.

Click to expand...

I'll see your one-step easier ... and raise you with:

.... you put your bike in gear, put a socket and breaker bar on the countershaft sprocket ... and turn it very slowly until the cam dots line up. If you turn it slow, there's no real chance of loosening the countershaft sprocket bolt. And then you're done without having to crack a cover open.

Your call.

E-Ticket said:

Garrison said:

I went one step easier: I zip tied my cam chain to the cam sprocket, and then just slid out the cam enough to lift the rocker.

To those who are a bit nervous about this procedure, this was also my first time adjusting valves. It went really well, with nothing perplexing. I think I looked at a couple of youtube videos of this procedure on generic bikes as well before diving in. Now that I've done it once I think the second time would be a whole lot quicker. The only pain for me was having to remove the stator cover to advance the engine, as my Rekluse doesn't allow it to rotate with the rear wheel. Of course, I damaged the gasket while I was at it. Maybe I should have a machine shop create an access plug, as one lister described previously in an excellent post.

Click to expand...

I'll see your one-step easier ... and raise you with:

.... you put your bike in gear, put a socket and breaker bar on the countershaft sprocket ... and turn it very slowly until the cam dots line up. If you turn it slow, there's no real chance of loosening the countershaft sprocket bolt. And then you're done without having to crack a cover open.

Your call.

Click to expand...

Nice!! I have to deal with a Rekluse also, this is another good idea from ET, thanks again!

E-Ticket said:

FWIW, I used to do the "pull the rocker arms shafts" ... till I discovered the problem of wear patterns, rotating them, swapping them, etc., etc.
Now, I just pull the cam if I need to. I think it's almost as fast ... and feels safer to me.
Cheers! E-Ticket

Click to expand...

Hey E-Ticket, I see the Bolt and the Horse Shoe looking bracket that holds the Camshaft so I agree that part looks easy:




How do you reinstall the Timing Chain Tensioner without the special Tool 77329051000 ?

fnqberg said:

Hi Davo,
I've read somewhere that the clearances get tighter on the bergs with time. Is this true?
I have just checked mine and I got 0.12 and 0.13 on the intake, and 0.17 and 0.18 on the exhaust.
I mic'd the exh shims at 2.85 and 2.91 respectively and was gonna chase up a 2.90 and 2.95 shims, but if they get tighter over time, wear should bring them closer to spec and I prolly wont bother.....what do you think?
by the way, have ya go the thermostat set on 20degC in the shed?

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Had a beer with a thread repair/mechanic mate last night who confirmed he had seen Valves get tighter after time. They push up into the valve seats.
Can’t remember if he said it was typical for Exhaust Valves (I’d had a few beers by the end of the night :drinking: ).

I can’t comment on your Valves tightening up fnqberg, I am flying by the seat of my pants and have no idea

fizz said:

Thanks so much for posting the procedure and Pics - really appreciated. :cheers:
I have 36 hrs on my bike and havn't checked my valves yet, but now I feel more confident about it - I have heard engine ticking on my bike when both cold and warm and unsure if its valves and/or CCT.
Only problem is checking valves at 20 degrees celcius - in Canberra its freezing cold - I'll have to convince Mrs Fizz I'll have to check the valves inside the house :lol:
Regards
Fizz

Click to expand...

Thanks fizz. I have 1,899Kms and 48.1 Hours. Think they were checked at 3 Hours by Sutto’s.
Yeah I am a bit paranoid about ticking noises too. Might invest in a DJH Cam Chain Tensioner. I am sure my stock one is OK though, like I say just paranoid.
It’s been 11C for the last 3 days here in Sydney. I think I might take a heater out to the garage tonight.



Hey Berglsmerg, I understand your logic now on the Shims wearing on the Rocker Shaft side, thanks will keep that in mind. I have brought a few new Shims so will try my luck with them.


Thanks for your comments Garrison and E-Ticket, keep them coming everybody.

Davo the special tool for the tensioner isnt really special, its just a device to push the tensioner rod out, any piece of round small enough to fit thru the small top cover hole will do that for you.

Sorry to bust your bubble eticket and viking but no mater where you apply force to your final drive ( chain and sprockets ) you still wont turn the motor over due to the rekluse.

Also there is absolutley no risk of screwing up cam timing if the cam is left in place, to measure lash after placing the shim the cam needs to go back in inviting damage to bearing surfaces and possible over/under tension of the camchain when the adjustment is completed.

But to each their own, variety is the spice of life etc etc the main thing is to ensure you have a beer or 12 whlie tinkering ( or maybe a cup of soup or hot coffee for our southern brothers ay Davo. :lol: S.O.O 2 next wednesday bloke get ready for 2-0 QLD 8) )

A couple of TDC questions for valve clearance measurement:

(i) Re using the crankshaft locking bolt when you find TDC, is it necessary to buy special part #113080802, or is it sufficient to just remove the existing bolt and thick copper washer (at 8 o'clock to the oil filler cap) and replace the bolt only without the thick copper washer (so its longer)?

(ii) when crank marks are aligned re finding TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke, (so you arn't 180 degrees out) I assume that is guaranteed by putting a drinking straw down the spark plug hole and when it stops rising up, thats TDC of the compression stroke thats used to measure valve clearances? Or is it just guaranteed when all valves are loose?

Thanx in advance
fizz

fizz said:

A couple of TDC questions for valve clearance measurement:

(i) Re using the crankshaft locking bolt when you find TDC, is it necessary to buy special part #113080802, or is it sufficient to just remove the existing bolt and thick copper washer (at 8 o'clock to the oil filler cap) and replace the bolt only without the thick copper washer (so its longer)?

(ii) when crank marks are aligned re finding TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke, (so you arn't 180 degrees out) I assume that is guaranteed by putting a drinking straw down the spark plug hole and when it stops rising up, thats TDC of the compression stroke thats used to measure valve clearances? Or is it just guaranteed when all valves are loose?

Thanx in advance
fizz

Click to expand...

(i) Yup. You only need to remove the thick, copper washer ... and re-insert the bolt. *GENTLY* hand tighten and your crank will be locked in place.

(ii) Not sure what bike we're talking about here. But if you're and '08 and on KTM 450/530 ... or an '09 or later Husaberg ... simply lining up the dots on the cam gear and the cam tower is sufficient. You don't need to worry about being 180 degrees out like on the older RFS motors.

Cheers! E-Ticket

Hi Fizz,
I agree with E-Ticket, line the dot up on the Camshaft with the Drill mark on the Head and the piston will always be at TDC. I think you are getting confused with lining up Crankshaft marks on engines. It is possible to get TDC on engines with Crankshaft marks but your Camshaft can be at 2 different places when lining up Crankshaft marks because the Camshaft spins twice as slow as the Crankshaft. So when a Crankshaft is at TDC it could be the top of the Exhaust Stroke for the Camshaft or top of the Compression Stroke for the Camshaft. When the Drill mark and the Camshaft mark line up on the Husaberg it is at TDC Crankshaft wise and top of the Compression Stroke Camshaft wise.


E-Ticket, DOH! I just ordered that Crankshaft locking bolt yesterday for next time I work on the engine and by the sounds of it I don’t need it.
Anyway, I will post up what it actually is when I get it.

With all the pics on this thread I decided to do my valve check today. I am just heating up my garage to 20 degrees celcius and will take a reading and report findings.

In the process however I noticed (FE390 2010 bike at 36hrs):
- my spark plug was VERY black (hasnt been changed before); and,

- I installed the dirt tricks cam chain tensioner 2 days ago (to see if it solved ticking engine noises - which it didnt - so thats why I am doing a valve check) and looking down the head at it internally, the dirt tricks tensioner is already extended somewhat and the cam chain looks VERY tight (I did install the tensioner with the bike lying down so it doesnt extend when installing via gravity).

Is this normal?

...
1 hr later now and garage at 20 degrees celcius; readings measured several times and are:

Inlet Valve In Spec Range 0.10-0.15
==============================
Inlet Valve (top of cylinder): Left 0.10 =====> borderline OK
Inlet Valve (top of cylinder): Right 0.10 =====> borderline OK

Exhaust Valve In Spec Range 0.12-0.17
=================================
Exhaust Valve (bottom of cylinder): Left 0.15=====>OK
Exhaust Valve (bottom of cylinder): Right 0.13=====>OK

The additional questions I also have now are:

- So now the bike is all undone, I assume its best for me to order thinner Inlet Valve shims so I am in the middle of the range and not on the lower limit; does this sound logical, or is it a case now of its not going to change now for many hrs so dont bother changing to thinner shims?

- my bike (even with Dirt Tricks Cam Tensioner) ticks alot on rhs of the engine, even when warm, so if the valves are proven in spec - is this ticking 'normal'?

- my inlet valves at .10 ; does this confirm the theory that valves tighten over time?

Thanx in advance.


Regards
fizz

So my intake valve clearance is in spec at .10 and .10 on the 20110 FE390; I asked earlier if I should bother changing shims, but I've just realised that if they only have shims in .05 increments then there is no point I guess.

My bike valves are in spec and I replaced CCT with Dirt Tricks one, but the bike still ticks like a bomb 8O - can anyone confirm that this ticking is 'normal'' ? I only use high grade 98 RON fuels (BP Ultimate in Australia).

Thanx
fizz

My 7 hour 390 ticks, and the valves are in spec. Pretty sure it did before I adjusted the valves!

Harley does shims in smaller increments if you want to get it closer to the spec mid-range. However, then you'll have Harley parts in your bike. You might find the urge to wear chaps, your bike will only get out on sunny days, all rides will end up at a dumpy bar, any ride longer than 100km will be considered long, and you'll start referring to your riding buddies as `bros'.

Garrison said:

...My 7 hour 390 ticks, and the valves are in spec. Pretty sure it did before I adjusted the valves!

Harley does shims in smaller increments if you want to get it closer to the spec mid-range. ...

Click to expand...

Thanks Garrison; found this:

10mm HD Vrod valve shims...
Size Harley Davidson Part Number
2.025 18624-01K
2.075 18625-01K
2.125 18626-01K
2.175 18627-01K
2.200 18670-01K
2.225 18628-01K
2.250 18671-01K
2.275 18629-01K
2.300 18672-01K
2.325 18630-01K
2.350 18673-01K
2.375 18631-01K
2.400 18674-01K
2.425 18632-01K
2.450 18675-01K
2.475 18638-01K
2.500 18676-01K
2.525 18639-01K
2.550 18677-01K
2.575 18655-01K
2.600 18678-01K
2.625 18656-01K
2.650 18679-01K
2.675 18657-01K
2.700 18680-01K
2.725 18658-01K
2.750 18681-01K
2.775 18659-01K
2.800 18682-01K
2.825 18692-01K
2.850 18683-01K
2.875 18693-01K
2.900 18684-01K
2.925 18694-01K
2.950 18685-01K
2.975 18695-01K
3.000 18686-01K

Regards
fizz

I am off to the HD shop before work to buy my shims - I will be dressed in business attire so may be denied entry

I assume I just smother the new shims in fresh oil and press them in to place with a feeler guage?? Can someone please confirm. Easy/hard to get in?

Thanx in advance
fizz

fizz said:

I am off to the HD shop before work to buy my shims - I will be dressed in business attire so may be denied entry

I assume I just smother the new shims in fresh oil and press them in to place with a feeler guage?? Can someone please confirm. Easy/hard to get in?

Thanx in advance
fizz

Click to expand...

Hey Fizz, that is all I did, just oil and sit them in there.
I then put everything back together in the head, wound the engine over 3 or 4 times and then checked the valves. I could have done with one of those 2.875 Harley Shims.

I checked my valve clearances last week. I currently have 140 hours on my '10 FE450. They were all in spec.!!!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: