2008.....

%@#$,look what I miss when I don't check in for a few days I can appreciate the time,effort and success that Taffy,Dale and others have had fine tuning carburetors but to an average person,EFI is definately the way to go.Personally,I'm not really interested in stopping to change the FI settings and if the system is set up properly,you shouldn't have to.A programmable sytem is fine if engine modifications vastly deviate from stock but FI systems have the capability to adjust over a wide range of variables anyway.The 20 year old Chrysler Aries/Reliant had an exceptionaly crude and basic FI system with little more than an 02,tps,cts and map and yet,worked just fine.Injectors these days rarely plug and cause very few issues and generally the vast majority of FI issues these days are due to the miles of wiring on your average car and coonection/corrosion issues and not component issues.FI system run larger filters than the old carburetor sytems but this is due to the fact that most(though not all)use the fuel they need and circulate the rest back to the tank via a return line unlike a carburetor where it just passed through the filter once then was burned.I always curse when I have to go bring in an old carbureted vehicle in the winter(fortunately,they're few and far between these days)pump the gas pedal,hold it down 1/4 or so,**** your head to the side,lift one leg,hope for the best,start,stall,then do it again.Bah Humbug,archaic technology best round filed for good. :wink:

tm-enduro said:

Taffy said:

the keihin FCR was designed for road bikes not off road. the EFI used on our low production dirt bikes could be units again modified from the roadbike or even the car fraternity.

regards

Taffy

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true, the EFI on my '91 and '92 (Polaris with Fugi engines) snowmobiles was the same as that on Subaru cars.

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Even worse example are the crudely modified Dellortos for our dirt bikes - but work they do.

Kez,

No issue. Sometimes the arguements here essentially get into pissing matches that no one wins... I'll sit here pissing all day long, but it doesn't do much for others reading.

Here in Holland, I've currently got an Opel (vauxhall, to all you blokes) Astra. I HAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTEEEE the TPS!!! I knew something has been "up". NOw that you mention the 25%=38%, I get it. It never occured to me... Now it makes sense. The car is simply undrivable. I spin the tires (willingly mostly) practically everywhere I go, I hate it.

You bring up and great point, thought, that emphasizes another advantage of EFI, power delivery. This is one of those points, that I mentioned earlier, that correlates to tuning a bike off the O2 sensor. This is where Dales arguement would hold the most water. Your best power delivery does not come in Stoich. conditions (engine lamba not lean, not rich, but spot on).

With that said, your point about riding in tight woods with a bike that has been tuned to only yeild the most rediculous power, is not what you want. Dales X2 cams and jetting kits basically even out (correct me if I'm wrong, Dale) the power curve, making the bikes more drivable and reliable. These sorts of things are more readily achievable with EFI, due to both spark and fuel control. Dale, being a guro, takes the control one step further by regrinding the cams. Average dudes can't do that for free. But EFI will allow you to adjust spark and fuel! Just imagine if the (practically) useless HI/LO switch on our bergs was actually useful!

-Parsko

PS- My buddy Dez is online right now. Funny thing, we both probably just woke up, and we are 8 hours apart in time zones!

Hey Parsko!
I didn't just wake up. I've been out in the garage drooling over my newly acquired '06 Fe650 and making lots of plans for serious over expenditure of funds for neat stuff for it.
Dez

You guys on about the 08 bikes, here in the UK cant even get the 07 bikes.Earliest i ever got a new model was August, never managed to get an 06 , had tried to get a 07, none available!! .Emailed husaberg 2 months ago, just said sorry.Presume dont want to sell over here any more, shame as i was a loyal customer.

Parsko said:

Sibbo,

I would bet that they aren't getting more than stock out of that engine. The restrictor kills the airflow. Adding the FI basically makes up for the added restriction, essentially bringing it back to stock. I was a member of the same program (SUNY Buffalo, 97-00), we FI'd a 600cc KTM Duke motor (with an 18mm restrictor running methanol). We were getting about 80hp, under ~10lbs of boost (also turbo'd).

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Sorry for bringing up an old post, but I had to wait till I could confirm what I was saying.

The SAE was on the w/e and I can say that they are definatly getting more peak hp out of the engine and a heap more midrange with the restrictor inplace. Other teams are also getting more ponies out of inlne 4 600's with restrictors compared to stock.

the number of revolutions your bike made the whole day! Imagine this conversation with your dealer "...Yeah, the bearing failed on revolution 58,236..."

Welcome to 2007!

-Parsko[/quote]

Lets hope in 2008 bearing failures are a thing of the past.
BRING ON EFI.

Jocke_D said:

Regarding EFI.
When R&D was located in Röfors in the late 90's the guys worked on an EFI system that didn't get to the shelfs. So it could probably be introdused right now with all the bugs gone

More interesting is the talk about a new 450 engine which I mentioned on the previous page. It is rumored to have a complete new layout of cyl/carb etc. Anyone know anything more ???

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Seems to me that v-twin EFI based upon a new smaller bottom is the likely change for Hbg. This would allow for a low centralized cg, as well as allow for additon hp, which is necessary for SM.

The Aprilia twin is an awesome SM bike. I do not think it does really good on dirt.

LeFrog said:

The Aprilia twin is an awesome SM bike. I do not think it does really good on dirt.

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Roland could make it work!

Jocke_d

i stand to be proved wrong - given that we've had a wink on next years bikes coming with EFI BUT, BUT, BUT i refuse to believe that a small production team have got EFI sorted when the rest of the engine is in such poor shape.

we can all judge our intellectual capabilities by our spelling, use of long words, maths, etc etc.

well i can judge where husaberg R & D are at Rofers and it isn't THAT far! it's clear to me that they are only able to implement certain mods and as far as testing parts to destruction goes - well they leave that to the customers!

i don't see any evidence of this in their work.

husaberg aren't allowed to lead katoom at all which is what we all thought was going to happen when discussed two or three years ago. husaberg isn't even an experimental guinnea pig!

i guess that they dreamed of going straight from dell orto to EFI and as engineers they would have 'salivated' about this.

then mr katoom walked in the room and said "wake up!". poor cams, poor tensioners, follower bearings, balancer bearings (etc etc etc etc) and told them to sort out their present machines and 'keep it simple' with keihin.

if they spent any time on a EFI over the last few years when all the above stuff was going wrong THEN IT WAS A CRIMINAL WASTE.

i like my bike but i have no doubts at all that it isn't reliable/bullet proof. if anyone here thinks they are then they should go smell the roses!

regards

Taffy

They are also going to be behind with frames. All new jap bikes seem to have alloy frames for 07 as well as revised engines from the success of their motocross racing teams bikes. This seems to be an effective way to tweak performance and keep on the cutting edge. I think both 450 Kawasaki and Yamaha put the motorcross engine in the enduro's with an electric start - hmm makes sense doesn't it ?

Aussieforce said:

They are also going to be behind with frames. All new jap bikes seem to have alloy frames for 07 ...

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Behind, or just different? I like the current cromoly steel frame as opposed to perimeter alum. Perimeter alum is sexy and will help sell bikes, but I haven't seen any quantifiable advantage, although access for service is a clear disadvantage for them.

taffy

you are CORRECT , i agree 100% .

as i wait for HUSABERG to improve their bikes , i have recently bought another bike .

please fix the ongoing issues HUSABERG /KTM ,i need another berg .

you might be right. Not sure of any weight advantage or handling/ lower centre of gravity ?? Maybe somebody knows mmore about this. As to EFI - certainly they would be able to team up with KTM's R&D or is that not an option

any of you ever picked up one of the husaberg chrome moly frames?

they are so light i can pick mine up with just my baby 'pinkie'!

aluminium is only lighter and better when you can use the surface area to create strenth. so if i made a triangle i'd make it out of aluminium but a frame is a long streak of piss and therefore aluminium is a gimmick

ask ducati!

regards

Taffy

Well I didn't see any real weight savings compared to bergs - unless engines and other areas is where the weight is in other bikes. Chrome Moly is actually what and can it be welded ?? - I would think so ?? My 99 frame looks like it is run of the mill steel ?? Haven't had to weld it and if I did would it be straightforward ?

yes and yes aussieforce.

regards

Taffy

Taffy said:

....poor cams, poor tensioners, follower bearings, balancer bearings (etc etc etc etc) and told them to sort out their present machines and 'keep it simple' with keihin.
.......i like my bike but i have no doubts at all that it isn't reliable/bullet proof. if anyone here thinks they are then they should go smell the roses!

regards

Taffy

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Taffy
I'm curious here. Do you feel that the Hbg still has reliability problems, and in comparison to what? I will agree that no competion 4T can match the reliability of a 2T.
Do you feel that Hbg is worse than other brands, or are all 4T's in the same category? A couple of years ago the trails around here were littered with blue and red 4Ts and some orange ones, now they are full of orange 2T's, Huskys, and some Jap 2Ts. Lots of grenaded $2K repair bills on the "wonder 4Ts" from Japan.

TM

i don't compare the husaberg brand to the others, that's why you'll never hear me say "hando do this and that better". i'm simply looking at huseys with my eyes fully open and calling it the way i see it.

it's not good enough.

i don't see why the customer should be the R & D for anyone nowadays. husey have been in austria for 5 years now and rofers has a enough R & D budget to get these things sorted. why does everything go wrong before it goes right?

let's take the engine that came out in 2001 and ***** it from the top:

it didn't breath right - so two breather holes. took 4 years
rocker lube holes wrong
follower bearings wrong
valves wrong
springs wrong
camshaft design that defies sense
auto decomp all wrong (write a list!)
manual decomp wrong
valve sizes wrong
wrong sprocket
wrong camchain twice over (from marzipan to old HD to D.I.D)
porting (still) wrong
air pockets in head - modded 4 years ago
headbolts - torque figures wrong
wrong tensioner blade (hopeless)
wrong tensioner (thus)
totally wrong balancer bearing set up - never sorted till now
gear selector problems - several in one here as well
main bearing problems - do we really know how and why?
exhaust hits front tyre!
crank gear nut lose
acres of stupid electrics (verified by a perplexed auto electrician)
sprague under strength
battery understrength
starter under strength
kickstart lever a bit iffy!
waterpump seal always leaks - is it sorted?


haven't mentioned that it started with a crap carb and ignition system from the 60's have i?
i haven't been around the bike either.

this is what needs sorting
torque figures assesed
needle roller swing arm assembly
better front mastercylinder and pads
more modern ancilliaries
better cam design
better handling c of g -lots of work here
the whole cooling issue needs looking at - something isn't right?

it's alright admiring how far they've come but if we look at how badly made some of this stuff was in 2001 you have to question why did they start like that?

regards

Taffy