2008.....

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I agree Taffy. Bikes should be as trouble free as possible and the more complicated components the more you have to spend on replacing faulty boards etc as they are not serviceable. Jump on a 2 stroke and open the power band and your gonna go !!!
 
Should Husaberg make a 2 stroke?

Hmm...modern 500 stroker. I would buy one at the drop of a hat.
 
sibbo said:
Should Husaberg make a 2 stroke?

Hmm...modern 500 stroker. I would buy one at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...

Thats sacreligious to say something like that.
 
Scott said:
sibbo said:
Should Husaberg make a 2 stroke?

Hmm...modern 500 stroker. I would buy one at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...

Thats sacreligious to say something like that.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but in all fairness, so is saying that they should move the kicker to the RHS ;)

thanks,
json
 
I bet the kicker is on the right before we see a 2 stroke.

Guaranteed the kicker is on the right side on the next generation motor, if there is a kicker at all.
 
OMG, you read my mind. A stroker that you dont have to mix fuel with.
 
Husaberg is sooo limited by KTM it is not even funny.

Right now not only should we have EFI but also anti-gravity and heat seak missiles (with Identification Friend or Foe, of course).

And an Easy button from Staples (in California only).
 
Taffy said:
EFI might be improving but there will still be the same problems they have now

manufactureres tolerances
individual wants
altitude
humidity
temp
the bike has a failing part/misaligned part
Click to expand...

3 of the 6 items mentioned above are completely eliminated when EFI is used (I would even go as far as to say 4).

Before you start making statements like that, maybe you'd want to read up a little... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_injection
Also, imagine if your dealer could diagnose your bike while he is sitting on his couch watching the Simpsons, and your bike is still in YOUR garage.

Agreed, that regardless of whether you have a carb or FI, if you have a pure mechanical issue, your gonna have to pull out the tools. But, while you guys are in the pits for 10 minutes trying to dial in your jets, I'lll pull over on the side of the track, engine running, take a drink of water, try a new setting, and get in another few more laps. Total practice laps for me 10, you 5. Who has the advantage then?

Crap, if clever enough, the FI system could be made such that, when you pull over to get your drink and make your change while your engine is still running and the carbed guy is taking 10 minutes, you could simply ask it to give you the next main jet up or down, with the same essential choices and resutls as the guy with the carb.

Guys, I'm kinda playin devils advocate here. I tend to agree that I like the robustness of a carb. But, simply said, FI allows the manufacturers to start using their imagination. If all we wanted was the same old dirtbike, with the same old problems, then we should just keep asking for a more narrow gas tank that holds more gas, like we have been for the past 4+ years.

-LUke
 
Parsko said:
Taffy said:
EFI might be improving but there will still be the same problems they have now

manufactureres tolerances
individual wants
altitude
humidity
temp
the bike has a failing part/misaligned part
Click to expand...

3 of the 6 items mentioned above are completely eliminated when EFI is used (I would even go as far as to say 4).

Before you start making statements like that, maybe you'd want to read up a little... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_injection
Also, imagine if your dealer could diagnose your bike while he is sitting on his couch watching the Simpsons, and your bike is still in YOUR garage.

Agreed, that regardless of whether you have a carb or FI, if you have a pure mechanical issue, your gonna have to pull out the tools. But, while you guys are in the pits for 10 minutes trying to dial in your jets, I'lll pull over on the side of the track, engine running, take a drink of water, try a new setting, and get in another few more laps. Total practice laps for me 10, you 5. Who has the advantage then?

Crap, if clever enough, the FI system could be made such that, when you pull over to get your drink and make your change while your engine is still running and the carbed guy is taking 10 minutes, you could simply ask it to give you the next main jet up or down, with the same essential choices and resutls as the guy with the carb.

Guys, I'm kinda playin devils advocate here. I tend to agree that I like the robustness of a carb. But, simply said, FI allows the manufacturers to start using their imagination. If all we wanted was the same old dirtbike, with the same old problems, then we should just keep asking for a more narrow gas tank that holds more gas, like we have been for the past 4+ years.

-LUke
Click to expand...


But Based On My Experiances With My Gasser,How The Hell Does It Allow For Humidity And Temp,It Has No Ambient Temp Sensor,Baromic Sensor And Has A Fairly Small ECU.
Think I'm Right In Saying Thats Because Its Open Looped,Its Basically And Exspensive Carb.
If It Went To Closed Loop With An O2 Sensor That Raises The Question Of How Long Before We Get A Cat.
As You Say Making Adjustments Once You've Shelled Out For The Hardware Would Be A Dodle,But If You Constantly Need To Be Changing The Set Up Like That It Begs The Question........It Aint Right Yet Or Somethings Wrong
Why Would You Need To Keep Playing With A Carb Like That? Once Dailed In Should Only Be Touched For Cleaning.
Getting Set Up With Lean Jetting At Sea Level Would Equal Richer Jetting The Higher Up You Go,So A 150MJ/35PJ At Sea Would Be Equal To 180MJ/42PJ At 15,000 If That Makes Sence.
As We Know These Bikes Run Smooth With That Jetting At Much Lower Heights.
If They Sold The Bike With 45mm TB AND The Hardware With The Software Loaded To Make Adjustments Then Thats A Little Better.
 
Kez,

I think you're right. Most likely they will NOT give us the capability to adjust anything without paying. Plus, when you get the users playing with stuff (aka MAPS), you end up blowing up the engine.

Yes, you're right, it ends up being an over complex carb. But, if the supplier was one for the peeps, they would simply make this stuff available, and then let YOU choose to blow your engine up or not.

Almost every FI system has an imput for ambient temperature and intake pressure. These two get factored together to give you air density. This is how it compensates for changes in altitude and temperature. The presure is always measure against ambient, subsequently it becomes a relavant pressure.

The size of the ECU doesn't matter, you can make electronics EXTREMELY small. You know the saying, "it ain't the size of the ocean, it's the motion of the ocean", kinda the same applies here.

Closed loop is not likely in offroad applications due to the conditions. BUT, in supermoto, it could easily be integrated.

Again, let me point out, once the bike is dialed in, there is no need to make adjustments (most of the time), CARB or EFI. EFI doesn't need cleaning, either!

I don't suggest that EFI is the engine panacea, I only suggest it makes life easier, and adjustments quicker.

And Dale will also likely agree (and has taught me) that tuning an engine against an Oxygen sensor is not necessarily the best way, nor would yeild the best results. BUT, other than the guys in the top 10% of racing (exactly what Dale works on), tuning against an Oxygen sensor is MORE than adequate to get a reliable engine. Not in his case, cause he IS working on the top 10%. Plus, the guy is a tuning GURU, of which I could only dream to be as good as... :?

Again, I love this topic!!

-Luke
 
Vegard said:
Kez, you promised. Why do you do that..... :rant:
Click to expand...

Bad Habbit,Used To Invoice Customers Like This,Much Better That The Way It Was Done Before,Nobdy Really Knew What They Were Paying For.
Cant Seem To Type Without Touching The Shift Key.
Sorry. :oops:
 
Parsko said:
Kez,

I think you're right. Most likely they will NOT give us the capability to adjust anything without paying. Plus, when you get the users playing with stuff (aka MAPS), you end up blowing up the engine.

Yes, you're right, it ends up being an over complex carb. But, if the supplier was one for the peeps, they would simply make this stuff available, and then let YOU choose to blow your engine up or not.

Almost every FI system has an imput for ambient temperature and intake pressure. These two get factored together to give you air density. This is how it compensates for changes in altitude and temperature. The presure is always measure against ambient, subsequently it becomes a relavant pressure.

The size of the ECU doesn't matter, you can make electronics EXTREMELY small. You know the saying, "it ain't the size of the ocean, it's the motion of the ocean", kinda the same applies here.

Closed loop is not likely in offroad applications due to the conditions. BUT, in supermoto, it could easily be integrated.

Again, let me point out, once the bike is dialed in, there is no need to make adjustments (most of the time), CARB or EFI. EFI doesn't need cleaning, either!

I don't suggest that EFI is the engine panacea, I only suggest it makes life easier, and adjustments quicker.

And Dale will also likely agree (and has taught me) that tuning an engine against an Oxygen sensor is not necessarily the best way, nor would yeild the best results. BUT, other than the guys in the top 10% of racing (exactly what Dale works on), tuning against an Oxygen sensor is MORE than adequate to get a reliable engine. Not in his case, cause he IS working on the top 10%. Plus, the guy is a tuning GURU, of which I could only dream to be as good as... :?

Again, I love this topic!!

-Luke
Click to expand...

Thats Not Quite Right,EFI Does Require Cleaning,Injectors Clog With Sediment That Can Pass Through Filters Over Time Causing A Change In Spray Pattern,Sensor Clog With Dirt/Muck Causing Different Readings To Be Send To ECU,Throttle Bodys Get Gummed Up Or Wear.
When I Say Its Has A Small ECU I Dont Mean Physical Size I'm On About The Memory Space,One Of The More Popular Cars Over This Side Of The Pond Used To Be The Ford RS Turbos. MK3 Escort (The Better One) Had Mechanical Injection And I Think A 8000 Bit Memory For The ECU To Control Fuel Pressure And Boost. MK4 Escort RST Had 12000 And Was More Drivable With 1BHP Lost At Top End.
Fiesta RST Had 18000 And About 4BHP More Than The Escorts.
Sierra RS Cosworths Had 20000 And Made Between 205-225 BHP,The Sierra RS500 Had A Different ECU And Ran 8 Injectors,Dont Know What Size ECU Was But Ran A Hugh T4 Turbo And Made About 250BHP,Escort Cosworth With Small Turbo Had 25000 And Still Made 225.
The Level 8 Pectel Has SOOO Much More Space In The Memory That It Can Safely Run Said Cosworths To The 500BHP With Correct Set Up.
My Gas Gas Had A Throttle Body,Potentiometre,Coolant Sensor,ECU Which I Think Had 2000 Bits? So It Winds Me Up When You Get Those People On TT saying That EFI Is So Good On The Gassers Doesnt Matter Where They Ride,They Dont Know What They're Talking About.
Unless Later Bikes Had A New FI System Fitted.
Does ^^^ Make Any Sence,Might Have The Wrong Terminology But Can You See What I'm Trying To Say.........Please :oops:
 
Thats Not Quite Right,EFI Does Require Cleaning,Injectors Clog With Sediment That Can Pass Through Filters Over Time Causing A Change In Spray Pattern,Sensor Clog With Dirt/Muck Causing Different Readings To Be Send To ECU,Throttle Bodys Get Gummed Up Or Wear.
Click to expand...

Yup, you're right. The difference is that EFI is pressurized, thus allowing one to use filters that don't need to be changed that often. Dirtbike gas tanks can get some grit in them, resulting in grit in the fuel. Carbs are more susceptible to grit, and need cleaning more often than injectors do.

Kez, we're sittin here having a pissing match about EFI vs. Carbs. The real question should be; will Husaberg enter this millenium and at least offer EFI?

What Jocke D brought up, or keeps bringing up, is that Husaberg has been keeping quiet lately. I would put that down as one of two things, Jocke D is really ugly and they can't stand his mug around there anymore, or they know that Jocke D spills the beans here on the forum (keep spilling buddy!!!!) and won't let him back in cause something big is about to happen. These guys are known for designing some cool stuff, let's hope they keep it up!

-Luke
 
As a snowmobiler that has built up some pretty strong sleds and ridden some amazing high $$ sleds, I can tell you that EFI nowdays is very impressive. Where 10 years ago a 700cc 2 cyliinder 2T was putting out 120 in stock form and could be pumped up to make 150+ hp by modifying (and thus loosing reliability and becoming finicky about jetting), you can now buy a 700 2 cyllinder 2T with EFI and get 150 hp that passes emmisions standards (not the same as bike) requires no jetting AND comes with a factory warranty! Actic Cat has been running EFI for many years with good success. My father just got his new Polaris Dragon (700 EFI) and is breaking it in as I type this. The cost for the new EFI sleds was stagering, but from early reprots I've heard, it is worth it. I presume that this is the same basic EFI that we will see on KTM and Husaberg bikes for '08. By the way, I forgot to mention that the EFI currently on sleds is all batteryless and adds minimal weight.

BTW, Husaberg has had lots of trick stuff over the years that has not yet, or may never reach production (such as V-twins and reverse cyllinder motors, back in '92!!). I'm sure that there have been many EFI mules running around the nordic woods for years as well.

Personally, I think that Husaberg easily has a couple more years of performance left in their bikes. Changes don't always mean progress. I'm sure that when Honda looks back they wish that they kept the '92 (thru '96) platform in production a couple more years rather than producing the '97 generation CR bikes. The only performance left on the table is in the suspension department, and I doubt that most buyers want the price increase associated with installing SXS susp or Ohlins.
 
Parsko said:
Kez, we're sittin here having a pissing match about EFI vs. Carbs. The real question should be; will Husaberg enter this millenium and at least offer EFI?
Click to expand...

Sorry,Didnt Want It To Sound Like That. I'm Only Ging On What I Have Had To Put Up With On The Gasser,Which Was An '03.
Allowing For R+D For The Bike I Guess That The FI System Is About 5/6 Years Old.
I'm Not Impressed With It,Even When It Was Running Properly,On A Leaner Setting And The Bike Flew,It Felt....Whats The Word.....Odd Could Catch The Motor Out,Not A Bog Or Cough Just A Flat Spot Then When You Let Of It Then Changed Not And Would Be Ok.
Think That Was Something To Do With The Trottle Settings.
Sold The Bike The Following Weeked.

That Another Thing,Most Cars Over Here That Have Electric Throttle Bodys Are Set Like This,25% Throttle=38% Butterfly,Makes The Car Feel Quiker Than It Really Is,Last 3rd Pedal Travel Is Just Dead.
One Way Designers Make Up For Emissions Constraints.
That Would Make For Quite Are Hard Bike To Use In Slippy Tight Woods,Lots Of Wheel Spin Or Spitting People Off The Back With A Little Throttle.
 
the keihin FCR was designed for road bikes not off road. the EFI used on our low production dirt bikes could be units again modified from the roadbike or even the car fraternity.

regards

Taffy
 
Taffy said:
the keihin FCR was designed for road bikes not off road. the EFI used on our low production dirt bikes could be units again modified from the roadbike or even the car fraternity.

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...
true, the EFI on my '91 and '92 (Polaris with Fugi engines) snowmobiles was the same as that on Subaru cars.
 

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