Tons of metallic flakes in oil: culprit?

jmscrttndn · Mar 17, 2015

Hello,

Emptied oil yesterday before pulling left side case off. Tons of metallic flakes in the oil. The magnetic tip on the drain plug was completely covered, and more just suspended in the old oil. I cleaned the oil screen and it too was covered.

The two largest pieces I found were about 3mm in length... pretty large. I took off the left side case to change the gear selector lever seal. Since that side is open, I looked around to see where the metal was coming from. Only obvious wear spot is the gear connected to the kickstarter shaft. It seems this gear slightly rubs into the case. If this gear were a clock, the rubbing would be occurring at 4-5 o'clock.

I am going to pull the head today to change the timing chain.

Anywhere I should inspect for damage due to all this metal? Time sensitive so feel free to give your $0.02 toute suite.

Click links for photos:

http://i.imgur.com/TggKlRV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u9l90Cv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PSSSbam.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3tsbETw.jpg

berglsmerg · Mar 17, 2015

Square shiny flakes = mains or big end.

jmscrttndn · Mar 17, 2015

Ok, that's a bit more work... how to check that?

worstinfinland · Mar 17, 2015

berglsmerg said:
Square shiny flakes = mains or big end.

I had square shiny flakes and the fault was 6th gear pitting.

jmscrttndn · Mar 17, 2015

worstinfinland said:
I had square shiny flakes and the fault was 6th gear pitting.

Thanks for the info. Any recommendations on how to check?

worstinfinland · Mar 17, 2015

Split cases.

steve · Mar 17, 2015

It won't be good news unfortunately. You'll just have to start disassembly and look.

Riding as is will result in lots more $s to spend later.

cheeseberger · Mar 17, 2015

I had lots of square shiny metal flakes when the cam chain was stretched and cutting into the case in my 04 550.

bushmechanic · Mar 17, 2015

cam chain stretching resulting in flakes would have been aluminium ? .. non magnetic

magnetic flat shiny flakes are hard metal ive found them present in big end failure, reground cam failure and gear surface pitting

bronze flakes are from the small bushing inside the gearbox input shaft that supports the clutch pushrod.

anecdotaly on this site at least, the 2 most common causes of magnetic silver flakes are mainbearings and cam follower bearings

cam follower bearings are easy to check.

you could check radial play of the mains with a dial gauge, 0.07mm or more = stuffed

jon andersson · Mar 18, 2015

If I found that in my engine I would take it all apart to be sure that I found the problem, potential damages from metal bits moving around and to be sure that the engine is clean.

Wolfy · Mar 18, 2015

jmscrttndn said:
Hello,

Emptied oil yesterday before pulling left side case off. Tons of metallic flakes in the oil. The magnetic tip on the drain plug was completely covered, and more just suspended in the old oil. I cleaned the oil screen and it too was covered.

The two largest pieces I found were about 3mm in length... pretty large. I took off the left side case to change the gear selector lever seal. Since that side is open, I looked around to see where the metal was coming from. Only obvious wear spot is the gear connected to the kickstarter shaft. It seems this gear slightly rubs into the case. If this gear were a clock, the rubbing would be occurring at 4-5 o'clock.

I am going to pull the head today to change the timing chain.

Anywhere I should inspect for damage due to all this metal? Time sensitive so feel free to give your $0.02 toute suite.

I had the same problem, the kick start shaft came outward only a couple of millimeters, but it would get bound up on the guide plate (black crescent shape with 2 bolt holes).

The gear would then clock itself behind the guide and tear into the case. I used 2000 grit sand paper and cleaned it up. It took me a couple times of removing the left side and clutch basket until I finally figured out how to get all the bits in place and stay there.

Does it look as though all of the material you found came from the kicker gear hitting the case? If so, I would just double check your the run out on and end play your flywheels.

I pulled the clutch basket and idler gear and used about 2 cans of the cheapest carb cleaner and sprayed the heck out of the all the internals, especially where the start shaft runs into the transmission cavity. I really sprayed in there, and kept the bike kilter to the left a little and drained everything into my wifes baking pan. As soon as I didn't see anymore bits coming out, I put everything back together.

I have since put about 350-400 miles on the bike and changed the oil after every 100. I haven't seen any flakes.

Hopefully its the same scenario for you, so you don't have to tear that bugger down.

Suerte!

jmscrttndn · Mar 18, 2015

Wolfy said:
Does it look as though all of the material you found came from the kicker gear hitting the case? If so, I would just double check your the run out on and end play your flywheels.

There were some larger chunks stuck to the drain plug magnet as well. 3mm long or so... this doesn't seem indicative of the rubbing of the kickstarter gear against the case.

Tomorrow, I am going to go through the manual thoroughly and see exactly what I will require to tear the entire engine down. I watched these videos on YouTube and they give me some confidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMYFAcjm7Yo

Problem is there is no re-assembly video

I don't think the kickstarter gear is the main culprit. I suspect that something else has gone majorly wrong... but for now, I will put it back together and run it to listen for anything wrong.

If it sounds alright, I will run a tank of gas through it and check the oil for the flakes... if they are present ---> teardown.

If there are no flakes after a tank, then I am good for now...

Kayeffess · Mar 18, 2015

I don't know how to post a video link but if you go to YouTube
Search 2002 husaberg fe400 repair....
He puts one back together. Should be similar to yours.
Good luck with things...hopefully it is something minor
Bummer luck with a new to you bike

Oregon Trail · Mar 20, 2015

Here's the video I think.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTA_RtbLzjg

jmscrttndn · Mar 20, 2015

Oregon Trail said:
Here's the video I think.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTA_RtbLzjg

Good video. Helps me to understand some stuff for sure. This guy seems to substitute each "special tool" with a dead blow hammer. Whatever works!

worstinfinland · Mar 21, 2015

Good video.

Skip some of the hammer parts though! When he hammered the crank at 3:20 literally made me cringe.

ned37 · Mar 21, 2015

i've never in 40 years rebuilt a crank without fine tuning the alignment with a deadblow.

tourist · Mar 21, 2015

ned37 said:
i've never in 40 years rebuilt a crank without fine tuning the alignment with a deadblow.

Just to confirm, you're serious, right? Because I like it.

Grandpa told me that that's what he did too.

berglsmerg · Mar 21, 2015

My freind at the bike shop used the same technique on my 570 crank.. Right before he drew cocks all over it.

kenny87 · Mar 21, 2015

http://youtu.be/lHoNQ81GBE8

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Tons of metallic flakes in oil: culprit?

jmscrttndn

berglsmerg

jmscrttndn

worstinfinland

jmscrttndn

worstinfinland

steve

cheeseberger

bushmechanic

jon andersson

Wolfy

jmscrttndn

Kayeffess

Oregon Trail

jmscrttndn

worstinfinland

ned37

tourist

berglsmerg

kenny87

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