Having been to bike show i can confirm that 2008 Fe450 and Fe550 are £3995 on the road, motard versions are £4995 on the road.
incredible or unbelievable deal?
- Thread starter Taffy
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Joined Feb 2003
3K Posts | 384+
Escondido, Ca. USA
U.S. Motorcycle Sales Report for 3rd Quarter 2007ned37 said:
October 24, 2007 - U.S. Motorcycle sales are down across the board so far this year, with one exception. The dual-sport category is up by about 4% compared to the same period in 2006. This may be due to the popularity of motorcycles like the updated KTM 990 Adventure or the popular BMW R1200GS.
The remaining categories, including off-road and street bikes, have suffered in 2007. Off-road sales are down about 15%, while street bike sales are off by nearly 5%. Even scooter sales are down by nearly 2%; the scooter market just can't seem to gain momentum in the U.S.A., even with relatively high fuel costs persuading many to find more efficient methods of transportation.
Overall motorcycle sales, including all categories, are down by 6.4% so for the first three quarters of 2007 when compared to 2006.
AND
Revenue from Harley-Davidson motorcycles was $1.18 billion, a decrease of $110.7 million or 8.6 percent versus the same period last year. Shipments of Harley-Davidson motorcycles totaled 86,535 units, a decrease of 10,511 units or 10.8 percent compared to last year's third quarter.
Comparing Husaberg sales to Harley sales is about 1750 Bergs to about 350,000 Harleys a year.
I think we can reasonably trace dirt bike sales with the economy in general. KTM wants that 09 model in the same showroom as the japanese bikes for maximum impact and maximum exposure to the world. You can't blame them for wanting to show off their new baby but I do think the new plan will backfire in a big way.
Joined Feb 2003
3K Posts | 384+
Escondido, Ca. USA
We have two KTM dealers in our town and one Husaberg dealer, one is a huge mega all brand dealer with a snotty nosed prepubescent sales force. The other is a one man show who was the first Husaberg dealer in the U.S. (or close to first) and has raced every Baja 1000 since inception. The mega dealer once sold Bergs too but gave them up after a few years. The one man show hung in there through the dark times. His status as a dealer is now unknown. I suspect KTM will pull out of his shop and take Husaberg to. 1500 square feet of total space vs 30,000 plus. Where do you think KTM wants to be? If this does in fact happen and I hope it does not I will scrap my plans on purchasing a new 09 model. That 09 should make a nice decoration for years to come as I am sure the mega dealer will mark the price up of the new Berg at least $1000 over list as they try to do to all of their other bikes. When 2010 rolls around and the other makes play catch up KTM is going to wonder what happened and why are the 09's still sitting on the showroom floor. We knew why.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
it's just occures to me, and i know i'm slow so bear with me - that they are going for the harley type shop where you walk around from stores to merchandise, 'the katoom experience', to new machines to used to the sales office. no other make there. the whole building in orange.... they are such clear market leaders and dominating everything in their sector that they are going cult: ala ducati and harley.
i still can't see how a dealer is going to stop himself from saying to the customer: "look at the ktm - forget the husaberg!". i just can't see anything else happening!
I've also been told that the idea is to sell all the '08s real quick and clear the floor ready for the new LDC engine. but thinking through that very sensible answer you have to be a schmuck not to see something else here!
they only have mid-west left as a dealer of anty repute. pope's are brand new and so is the N.I. dealer and anyone else they take on.
THAT EFFECTIVELY MEANS THAT THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN MOVE UNITS THIS YEAR IS THROUGH MID WEST. THAT'S ONE DEALER FOR THE WHOLE OF THE UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
faced with this carnage, they havve had NO CHOICE. discount the bikes, get them sold and fast!!!!
i would suggest that gary grover and S S m/cycles are outed because they didn't hold the inventory that husaberg wanted, how many if any new machines were in stcok and why shoul they? for two years DCR's advertising budget has gone to pot and the whole sales system in general was to mush for gary and SR off-road and they're just the ones i know of! what choice did they have but to keep their hands in their pockets.
when DCR faced financial problems two years ago it should have been clear that a major investment was needed from mattighofen.
i liken it to a lorry going up a steep incline, not for one moment can you take your foot off the throttle - LET ALONE MISS A GEAR! all in all S S and GGR's future at that time became entwined with DCRs over 'how do we get back and running'. i beleive the factory paid off DCRs racing budget which was way beyond something a little manufacturer like husaberg could honestly afford to do. this cleared them to continue but the models haven't been upgraded hard enough for '07 and again in '08.
ktm needed to keep their market share but they didn't invest.
both dealers are 'proud to announce' that they had taken on Gas-Gas and gary was 'proud to announce' that he had sherco and/or husky. this will have meant that the husabergs weren't getting the best possible coverage and sales that they could acheive. this will have grated with husaberg.
as for DCR, well i think that you'll find that they have got dozens and dozens of husabergs - both new and used - there! that in itself tells you that their way of doing business is a little different!
regards
Taffy
i still can't see how a dealer is going to stop himself from saying to the customer: "look at the ktm - forget the husaberg!". i just can't see anything else happening!
I've also been told that the idea is to sell all the '08s real quick and clear the floor ready for the new LDC engine. but thinking through that very sensible answer you have to be a schmuck not to see something else here!
they only have mid-west left as a dealer of anty repute. pope's are brand new and so is the N.I. dealer and anyone else they take on.
THAT EFFECTIVELY MEANS THAT THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN MOVE UNITS THIS YEAR IS THROUGH MID WEST. THAT'S ONE DEALER FOR THE WHOLE OF THE UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
faced with this carnage, they havve had NO CHOICE. discount the bikes, get them sold and fast!!!!
i would suggest that gary grover and S S m/cycles are outed because they didn't hold the inventory that husaberg wanted, how many if any new machines were in stcok and why shoul they? for two years DCR's advertising budget has gone to pot and the whole sales system in general was to mush for gary and SR off-road and they're just the ones i know of! what choice did they have but to keep their hands in their pockets.
when DCR faced financial problems two years ago it should have been clear that a major investment was needed from mattighofen.
i liken it to a lorry going up a steep incline, not for one moment can you take your foot off the throttle - LET ALONE MISS A GEAR! all in all S S and GGR's future at that time became entwined with DCRs over 'how do we get back and running'. i beleive the factory paid off DCRs racing budget which was way beyond something a little manufacturer like husaberg could honestly afford to do. this cleared them to continue but the models haven't been upgraded hard enough for '07 and again in '08.
ktm needed to keep their market share but they didn't invest.
both dealers are 'proud to announce' that they had taken on Gas-Gas and gary was 'proud to announce' that he had sherco and/or husky. this will have meant that the husabergs weren't getting the best possible coverage and sales that they could acheive. this will have grated with husaberg.
as for DCR, well i think that you'll find that they have got dozens and dozens of husabergs - both new and used - there! that in itself tells you that their way of doing business is a little different!
regards
Taffy
Joined Feb 2003
3K Posts | 384+
Escondido, Ca. USA
Interesting saga of a new KTM from KTM talk. Hopefully this is not the sort of thing the future holds for Husaberg as the transition from the mom and pop dealership to the mega-dealership takes hold.
http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=214128
http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=214128
Joined Dec 2005
1K Posts | 0+
australia
what a nightmare :cuss:
the husaberg is more suited to the ''mom & pop'' dealership , a dealership where the dealer rides or races the motorcycle , this is where true enthusiasm exists .
the BIG franchise system is designed to move the product , and this is what the bean counters want . at the end of the day the motorcycle is produced to do one thing and one thing only .... make money .
keep in mind , ktm does not care about you ... just the bottom line , this is business .
the husaberg is more suited to the ''mom & pop'' dealership , a dealership where the dealer rides or races the motorcycle , this is where true enthusiasm exists .
the BIG franchise system is designed to move the product , and this is what the bean counters want . at the end of the day the motorcycle is produced to do one thing and one thing only .... make money .
keep in mind , ktm does not care about you ... just the bottom line , this is business .
Have been a Berg rider for a few years on 501s and 550s, when i tried to get a new 07,they just did not arrive. My dealer GGR could not explain anything so i went straight to Husaberg. They said maybe i wasent able to pay and other excuses and there wasnt a problem in supply!
After 14 months of trying i gave up and changed colors. GGR still looked after me and my bikes. He is a brilliant dealer and a man of his word, unlike so many other ones!
When an 07 came up my friend had it at about 5.7K, eight months ago. he has had an 08 on order for 2 months with no availability again.
Now they take GGRs dealership away and spares, dump the 08 models out at 4K and STIFF the people who have made bergs work in the UK and all the customers, killing the second hand market
Dont know what KTM are up too, but i dont trust any of them now. BEWARE
After 14 months of trying i gave up and changed colors. GGR still looked after me and my bikes. He is a brilliant dealer and a man of his word, unlike so many other ones!
When an 07 came up my friend had it at about 5.7K, eight months ago. he has had an 08 on order for 2 months with no availability again.
Now they take GGRs dealership away and spares, dump the 08 models out at 4K and STIFF the people who have made bergs work in the UK and all the customers, killing the second hand market
Dont know what KTM are up too, but i dont trust any of them now. BEWARE
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 3+
Berkshire, England
whosahberg said:
I think that is a contradiction in terms!
To be a viable business KTM HAVE to care about you. Otherwise they don't have a business.
There are too many stories to tell about companies who never cared about their customers and didn't last for very long - their reputation begins to proceed them.
The fact that Husaberg are specialist and niche and probably more suited to small specialist dealers doesn't mean to say they can't shift the numbers - they can with the right strategy.
The fact of the matter is that even since KTM bought out Husaberg their whole strategy has been fundamentally flawed.
Why?
Because you cannot have a successful brand, nor dealership network without both a decent distribution AND marketing structure. Lately parts distribution has improved, but KTM have done F*** all about getting out there to constructively build, or support for that matter, the brand.
While it is always a dealers responsibility to make the sales and do their bit, they must have the factory behind them putting the efforts in as appropriate.
Have KTM UK done anything on this - absolute nada....
On a business level, you just need to look at a few examples to get an idea. Look at Microsoft. They don't sell anything directly, they have a vast distribution network with retailers everywhere. BUT they support that distribution network by realising they need to co-ordinate the marketing of the brand. Coca Cola is no different.
As for the automotive business, just look at brands like Toyota and Lexus, for example. They are essentially the same company but there is something in the required differentiation that makes sense in having two distinct retail networks etc. Toyota aren't the worlds' largest car maker for nothing, are they?
Even look at GM, they own many different car brands and nearly screwed Saab up in the nineties by using the common Vauxhall/Opel components, then realised they need to do something different.
Look at BMW and Mini....
It just goes to show that, in my opinion, KTM UK are just acting like spoiled short-termist unprofessional cowboy twits.
Someone clearly needs to get a grip....and engage their brains.
If they are proposing a new wonderful superduper flashy dealer network, then, quite frankly, why have some of the dealers they have chosen going forward got the deal? It doesn't match up.
If they're looking to streamline their distribution network then what they're doing doesn't make sense either. If they're looking to widen their distribution network to increase sales, then unless they announce a whole load more dealerships shortly, they're going the wrong way about it. It just doesn't make any sense.
Simon
I am not in the motorcycle selling business, but wouldn't it just make sense to keep your dealers that you already have, and adjust the dealers strategy to the marketing plan. If they want dealers to have a nice store front and "X" amount of square ft to properly display there motorcycle, then how about helping the dealer grow a little. Maybe an incentive plan to help the dealer expand his shop, or give his store front a face lift? Face it, KTM is an enthusiast brand just like the Bergs. The way I see it, someone at KTM is wanting to be the European 'Honda', not a bad goal. Leaving there long term dealers in the cold isn't the way! If an enthusiast walks into a shop that is run by non-enthusiast types, 99.9% of us walk right back out the door! KTM motorcycles can be just as finicky as our Bergs, a guy looking to get some tech support isn't going to get it at a supper store from the guy fixing a lawn mower, no way. Letting dealers like DCR and GGR go by the way side is insanity! They appear to be doing the same here in the states as well, a sad day for sure. 
dealer & distribution discussion
Do Ktm really think that by selling bikes at discount prices they will get people to buy them, a certain dealer was importing bikes from european dealers and selling them at discounted prices. All this did was kill the secondhand market and piss off the customers of loyal dealers and stop loyal dealers from selling genuine uk bikes so not meeting ktm targets.Was it really wise of ktm to anounce the 09 bikes so far in advance, i heard several comments from potential purchasers of 08 bikes saying " whats the point in buying an 08 bike when you might as well wait for the 09 bikes as the old style bikes won't be worth anything like their true value and nobody will want one secondhand".I have been a good friend of Gary Grover and a loyal customer for many years so i have seen the ups and downs of his business and when DCR was removed as importer i thought that now Husaberg would progress under the management of KTM UK with alot of promoting of the product (what promotion) the brand would soon be back where it was a few years ago with a reasonable share of the market, but this did not happen and to most of the bike buying public Husaberg dissapeared off the face of the earth.KTM uk should shoulder most of the blame for this. as for the discount prices some may say this is a good thing but just imagine if you had bought a bike within the last six months paying £5700 for your bike try selling that.
Do Ktm really think that by selling bikes at discount prices they will get people to buy them, a certain dealer was importing bikes from european dealers and selling them at discounted prices. All this did was kill the secondhand market and piss off the customers of loyal dealers and stop loyal dealers from selling genuine uk bikes so not meeting ktm targets.Was it really wise of ktm to anounce the 09 bikes so far in advance, i heard several comments from potential purchasers of 08 bikes saying " whats the point in buying an 08 bike when you might as well wait for the 09 bikes as the old style bikes won't be worth anything like their true value and nobody will want one secondhand".I have been a good friend of Gary Grover and a loyal customer for many years so i have seen the ups and downs of his business and when DCR was removed as importer i thought that now Husaberg would progress under the management of KTM UK with alot of promoting of the product (what promotion) the brand would soon be back where it was a few years ago with a reasonable share of the market, but this did not happen and to most of the bike buying public Husaberg dissapeared off the face of the earth.KTM uk should shoulder most of the blame for this. as for the discount prices some may say this is a good thing but just imagine if you had bought a bike within the last six months paying £5700 for your bike try selling that.
RE: dealer & distribution discussion
I know Dave Clarke very well and will be seeing him soon.
However, in the interim, anyone wishing to voice their concerns and even disapproval at these events and strategy, the person to innundate with complaints is:
[email protected]
I will be doing so and I encourage all you UK based Berg riders to join me in doing the same.
Surely strong customer opinion would make them sit up and listen.
I know Dave Clarke very well and will be seeing him soon.
However, in the interim, anyone wishing to voice their concerns and even disapproval at these events and strategy, the person to innundate with complaints is:
[email protected]
I will be doing so and I encourage all you UK based Berg riders to join me in doing the same.
Surely strong customer opinion would make them sit up and listen.
I gotta chime in here, even thought I'm probably going to get flamed for this. And remember you blokes, I'm a yank and this is my view from the grandstands.
First of all the notion selling the 08's off at a much reduced price somehow destroys the used market is boulderdash. The fact of the matter is that the car manufacturers do the same thing, every year. And why do they do that? To clear the inventory for the new model year. This is not a foreign business practice. It doesn't destroy the value of the used vehicles of the previous model years, that's a fact. Secondly, are you buying a bike to sell it, or are you buying a bike to ride it. Especially these bikes, they continue to make refinements each year, and you know what those refinements are on the new bikes before you buy them. So, it's really a value judgment based on the individual, and whether or not you just want a new bike. Getting a new bike is great, some would say magical.
I agree it would suck to have bought an 08 for full pop, and then the next week have it be reduced significantly in price a few weeks later, instead of at the end of the year when the new model year is coming. But, unless I'm wrong, this hasn't happened. At least based on what I've read here.
And as far as buying the 08 bikes and their net worth being reduced because of the upcoming release of the 09. Well that's bs too. If you buy an 08 for what is it 2000# less than the expected retail, then you got a great deal on a great motorcycle, period, end of sentence. And furthermore, the clearance price just off set the loss of resale value in it's relationship to the release of the 09. If you want an 09 then wait for it. If you were expecting to help pay for the 09 with your used 05, 06, 07, etc, and think that just because they're selling he 08's at reduced prices, (otherwise known as a clearance) that the value of your old bike is going to decrease b/c of that, no matter what anyone says, you can't be helped to understand.
The reason your old bike is worth less is b/c it's an old bike. And it's net worth is also calculated on what condition it's in.
How many of you out there that are complaining about the reduced cost of the 08's actually race on a competitive and regular basis?? And for that matter, if you do race, are you capable of using the bike you ride now to it's fullest potential? WFO all the time? Even the greatest supercross racer of all time Jeremy McGrath said he could not do that with what is arguably the greatest mx bike of all time, the CRF450R. I'm not a pro, but, I'm no slouch either, and there is no way that my 04 550 is holding me back as far as outright speed goes. And for that matter neither does my 01 501, the 04 is just more refined. Look at Taffy, he's riding an 02 400 and based on his posts he's still giving the lads a run for their money in his class. Alas, I digress.
I also have news for you, it's one hell of a lot cheaper to keep your old bike going and make the upgrades that the newer bikes have than it is to buy a new one. And, I bet you will go faster on your old bike for sometime even if the new bike has some advancements b/c your used to your old bike, have the confidence in it, and have it dialed in. Unless you are independently wealthy and have lot's of time to go testing, it's going to take time and money to get the suspension dialed in and for you to gain familiarity and confidence on the new bike.
When I was younger and was racing all the time, I bought a new bike each year because I thought I was going to go faster cause the new bike was so much better. It only took me about 3 years to realize that I spent 1/4 to 1/2 the season getting the new bike sorted. And during that time my competition was still giving me fits on their two year old bikes. Why? Because they maintained their bikes and knew how to ride.
The only complaint I would have is that the NA importer does not do the same for the 08's here in the states.
So, really, when comes right down to it, how many 08's do you think they produced? According to the requirements that have come to light for the dealers, that means that each dealer in the UK would have to take 4 bikes each this year, and if I'm reading all this right there was what 4 dealers in England and two to the north. So, in England that means that there would have been 16 bikes sold at a clearance price?? And that number of bikes is some how supposed to have decimated the re sale price of the hundreds (let me know if I'm full of it here, I'm sure you will) of other bikes?? Come on, those bikes are still worth what there worth, and anyone who get's the chance to up grade to the 08 for such a reduced price will be lucky indeed. The 08's are the zenith of the this engine/chassis series, compare them to the 01's & 02's with all their teething problems.
If you have to have an 09 and your old Berg is getting long in the tooth, rebuild only what is necessary and save up for that 09. I'm making my business plan right now to fund that 09.
First of all the notion selling the 08's off at a much reduced price somehow destroys the used market is boulderdash. The fact of the matter is that the car manufacturers do the same thing, every year. And why do they do that? To clear the inventory for the new model year. This is not a foreign business practice. It doesn't destroy the value of the used vehicles of the previous model years, that's a fact. Secondly, are you buying a bike to sell it, or are you buying a bike to ride it. Especially these bikes, they continue to make refinements each year, and you know what those refinements are on the new bikes before you buy them. So, it's really a value judgment based on the individual, and whether or not you just want a new bike. Getting a new bike is great, some would say magical.
I agree it would suck to have bought an 08 for full pop, and then the next week have it be reduced significantly in price a few weeks later, instead of at the end of the year when the new model year is coming. But, unless I'm wrong, this hasn't happened. At least based on what I've read here.
And as far as buying the 08 bikes and their net worth being reduced because of the upcoming release of the 09. Well that's bs too. If you buy an 08 for what is it 2000# less than the expected retail, then you got a great deal on a great motorcycle, period, end of sentence. And furthermore, the clearance price just off set the loss of resale value in it's relationship to the release of the 09. If you want an 09 then wait for it. If you were expecting to help pay for the 09 with your used 05, 06, 07, etc, and think that just because they're selling he 08's at reduced prices, (otherwise known as a clearance) that the value of your old bike is going to decrease b/c of that, no matter what anyone says, you can't be helped to understand.
The reason your old bike is worth less is b/c it's an old bike. And it's net worth is also calculated on what condition it's in.
How many of you out there that are complaining about the reduced cost of the 08's actually race on a competitive and regular basis?? And for that matter, if you do race, are you capable of using the bike you ride now to it's fullest potential? WFO all the time? Even the greatest supercross racer of all time Jeremy McGrath said he could not do that with what is arguably the greatest mx bike of all time, the CRF450R. I'm not a pro, but, I'm no slouch either, and there is no way that my 04 550 is holding me back as far as outright speed goes. And for that matter neither does my 01 501, the 04 is just more refined. Look at Taffy, he's riding an 02 400 and based on his posts he's still giving the lads a run for their money in his class. Alas, I digress.
I also have news for you, it's one hell of a lot cheaper to keep your old bike going and make the upgrades that the newer bikes have than it is to buy a new one. And, I bet you will go faster on your old bike for sometime even if the new bike has some advancements b/c your used to your old bike, have the confidence in it, and have it dialed in. Unless you are independently wealthy and have lot's of time to go testing, it's going to take time and money to get the suspension dialed in and for you to gain familiarity and confidence on the new bike.
When I was younger and was racing all the time, I bought a new bike each year because I thought I was going to go faster cause the new bike was so much better. It only took me about 3 years to realize that I spent 1/4 to 1/2 the season getting the new bike sorted. And during that time my competition was still giving me fits on their two year old bikes. Why? Because they maintained their bikes and knew how to ride.
The only complaint I would have is that the NA importer does not do the same for the 08's here in the states.
So, really, when comes right down to it, how many 08's do you think they produced? According to the requirements that have come to light for the dealers, that means that each dealer in the UK would have to take 4 bikes each this year, and if I'm reading all this right there was what 4 dealers in England and two to the north. So, in England that means that there would have been 16 bikes sold at a clearance price?? And that number of bikes is some how supposed to have decimated the re sale price of the hundreds (let me know if I'm full of it here, I'm sure you will) of other bikes?? Come on, those bikes are still worth what there worth, and anyone who get's the chance to up grade to the 08 for such a reduced price will be lucky indeed. The 08's are the zenith of the this engine/chassis series, compare them to the 01's & 02's with all their teething problems.
If you have to have an 09 and your old Berg is getting long in the tooth, rebuild only what is necessary and save up for that 09. I'm making my business plan right now to fund that 09.
Joined Mar 2006
2K Posts | 4+
mid-wales, uk
tend to agree with what dale says. the situation with bergs is that they've never held there resale value much and if i was after an investment i certainly wouldn't buy any dirt bike.
i'm not even miffed that only 3 months ago i paid only £700 less than the price of a new one now for my '06 as its such a 1 off sale price it couldnt have been anticipated.
i think that berg resale prices will stay at their normal low prices and that anyone who buys 1 at the sale price will just loose slightly less than normal. if they're cheeky or lucky they might even make a couple of £
i'm not even miffed that only 3 months ago i paid only £700 less than the price of a new one now for my '06 as its such a 1 off sale price it couldnt have been anticipated.
i think that berg resale prices will stay at their normal low prices and that anyone who buys 1 at the sale price will just loose slightly less than normal. if they're cheeky or lucky they might even make a couple of £
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
if only the Uk have doe it then clearly the difference is the fact that the UK is down to 1 dealer plus however many newbies!
that is a major calamity and so the dramatic step!
daleO, you're right except that the guys with '06s and '07s are losing value and our cheif complaint - which you recognise is that they have started the season at this price!!!
people will find the gap to an '09 too big. simple!
thees is perhaps why monsiuer guillotine has chopped ouef eez 'ed!
that's the word anyway...
regards
taffy
that is a major calamity and so the dramatic step!
daleO, you're right except that the guys with '06s and '07s are losing value and our cheif complaint - which you recognise is that they have started the season at this price!!!
people will find the gap to an '09 too big. simple!
Danno said:
thees is perhaps why monsiuer guillotine has chopped ouef eez 'ed!
that's the word anyway...
regards
taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
so 20 bikes so far for the year and that's between dcr, ss, ggr, mid west, the one in northern ireland and ?
if mid west and dcr are solus and it's just 20??????????
or maybe the dutch numbers are up while ours are down? (tum te tum, too da loo, i sang de feeme tune, i wrote da music!).
seriously though...we've got to have that wrong somewhere!
regards
Taffy
if mid west and dcr are solus and it's just 20??????????
or maybe the dutch numbers are up while ours are down? (tum te tum, too da loo, i sang de feeme tune, i wrote da music!).
seriously though...we've got to have that wrong somewhere!
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 3+
Berkshire, England
DaleEO said:
Hey Dale,
Maybe not flamed but instead corrected :wink:
DaleEO said:
(this is all going to be somewhat oversimplified of course)
The fact of the matter is that it is about market perception and the rules of supply and demand. And if a new vehicle is very much lower priced, there will be a knock-on effect on the used market. Maybe not for your 7 or 8 years old motor, but definitely for your recent year or two or three purchase because that's where the discount starts to hit straight off.
Another fact is that most buyers of recreational vehicles do not buy just on the basis of the buying price but also on the residuals - they want to know that they are going to be able to get a decent figure back from their purchase AND that they are going to be able to sell it when they want to. Almost everybody who buys a car concerns themselves with residuals too - we even have charts to helps buyers determine which car holds its value best.
Although somewhat different the car market is riddled with excellent examples. Cars that hold their value well also develop more of a prestige tag, those that don't, don't.
Yes, car manufacturers always discount cars, but they don't pull the rug from underneath their entire dealer network AND announce unbelievable price reductions AND announce and totally revolutionised model at the same time.....nor do they discount them at such an equivalent percentage as KTM UK are doing on the 08s. Not in this country they don't, what they do instead is sell the vehicle as a "pre-reg" (essentially marking it as slightly used) and take maybe a couple of thousand pounds off the value. They might however, right at the end of their quarter when they haven't met their targets discount hugely, BUT not in public, only with the individual buyer. There were years where reports flooded in about car stockpiles building up because units didn't shift but the manufacturers acted in a sense that it is better to balance market value with enticing discounts instead of totally flooding the market with bargain deals.
Even when they do announce a totally revolutionised replacement model, they often keep others in parallel or provide a clear differentiation. With evolution it is, of course somewhat different. But they don't send out a load of signals that give their customers the impression their last offering isn't worth anything.
Another point is one that as a yank you really will not be familiar with. The UK market is a very funny market when it comes to both bikes and cars in that we typically pay over the odds compared to mainland Europe. As a result there was a huge growth in parallel importers of bikes into this country that undersold the official importers by a really significant margin. As a result the official importers eventually had to bring their prices down accordingly. As a knock on, this also affected used prices which reduced also.
Then came a time when credit was easy and new bikes were cheap and availability was such that used prices became ridiculously low causing much industry concern. It also happened for a while with the used car market floundering.
There is always going to be a direct relationship between new and used prices and related supply and demand.
To get back on topic, while I am sure the Husaberg brand can and will recover eventually, it's like undoing a decade's worth of work that just has to be-redone again. And it will take years of very hard work and money to do it.
And doing it the way they have done is like saying we don't give a toss about you loyal customers, you're not good enough for us, we want someone else instead, but who is that going to be?
If they thought about it properly, they might realise more choice means wider appeal which means a wider range of customers which means more money potential which is what you need to be doing when difficult times arise and economically, difficult times are just about to arise, if they haven't already. You seriously don't want to piss your customers off totally, it's never good for business because they're often very good at network marketing!
On that basis I maintain my position on topic that I believe KTM UK has acted with complete business ineptitude while also lacking in moral substance.
Simon
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
20 to 80 but only after a 30% discount? well if he can't make that then he should be shot at dawn by ze germanic cousins!
they really don't know how cautious people are when buying new. chat a bird up after 2 lagers and without thinking, buy the wrong soap powder and throw it in the bin! but buy the next bike? now that's a month of thinking!
i'll wait till the show and go have a look!
i've had a word with ABC and they reckon that they're rubbish
i like the look of it but it's not me!
yeh, reliable but....
don't like the colour
old engine
saw one once broken down
nice engine but...
i'm not having one of those - everyone's got one!
value for money
too tall
too short
can't satand that suspension, had them 30 years ago - i bet they're still no good!
can't give em away
no dealer near me
always buy from.....always does me right!
they've not been dealing in them for long
their mechanic says he is just starting to get to know the sprocket teeth on it quite well.....
so, what have husabergs in '08 got going for them:
THEY'RE CHEAP
and....
and.....
and.......
look how many things are missing from the list i did above!
you take SS, DCR, GGR out of it and you wipe out wwwwwwwwwwwwwwww aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa yyyyyyyyyyy more than you gain! and let's not forget SR off-road who effectively left i suppose coz of DCR (maybe) but who were right on it with husaberg.
there. there!!! you had it, YOU HAD WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR. you're going into battle with martin johnson, johnny wilkinson and jason robinson etc etc on your team. their success is needed by the importer, genuine successs. real profit because everything KTM wants costs money! serious cash for the kind of shop they want yet they all the good old dealers are getting out.
motorcycle shops throughout the world are run by men of their time who proably raced or were just damn fine mechanics and started up on their own. they had a talent, they scraped the funds together and started a shop.
rarely do shops even go into the second generation let alone a third! it's therefore vital that factories nurse, water, feed their dealers to grow with them!
they start in a back street shop and as the previous generation wilts they move onto the high street and the whole process is repeated.
regards
Taffy
they really don't know how cautious people are when buying new. chat a bird up after 2 lagers and without thinking, buy the wrong soap powder and throw it in the bin! but buy the next bike? now that's a month of thinking!
i'll wait till the show and go have a look!
i've had a word with ABC and they reckon that they're rubbish
i like the look of it but it's not me!
yeh, reliable but....
don't like the colour
old engine
saw one once broken down
nice engine but...
i'm not having one of those - everyone's got one!
value for money
too tall
too short
can't satand that suspension, had them 30 years ago - i bet they're still no good!
can't give em away
no dealer near me
always buy from.....always does me right!
they've not been dealing in them for long
their mechanic says he is just starting to get to know the sprocket teeth on it quite well.....
so, what have husabergs in '08 got going for them:
THEY'RE CHEAP
and....
and.....
and.......
look how many things are missing from the list i did above!
you take SS, DCR, GGR out of it and you wipe out wwwwwwwwwwwwwwww aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa yyyyyyyyyyy more than you gain! and let's not forget SR off-road who effectively left i suppose coz of DCR (maybe) but who were right on it with husaberg.
there. there!!! you had it, YOU HAD WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR. you're going into battle with martin johnson, johnny wilkinson and jason robinson etc etc on your team. their success is needed by the importer, genuine successs. real profit because everything KTM wants costs money! serious cash for the kind of shop they want yet they all the good old dealers are getting out.
motorcycle shops throughout the world are run by men of their time who proably raced or were just damn fine mechanics and started up on their own. they had a talent, they scraped the funds together and started a shop.
rarely do shops even go into the second generation let alone a third! it's therefore vital that factories nurse, water, feed their dealers to grow with them!
they start in a back street shop and as the previous generation wilts they move onto the high street and the whole process is repeated.
regards
Taffy
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