Vapor lock on 2010 390??

I have some more info to add to this, as it happened to me again for the second time. The bike is a 2009 FE570, 50 hours.

Bike was running fine, I had a minor crash but the engine was still running, so I walked over and shut it off. I picked up the bike, started it fine and started riding. After about 100 feet the bike died as usual. I immediatly checked for flasing FI light and saw no codes. I disconnected the fuel line and reconnected it, but still no start. I opened the gas cap and the fuel starting boiling furiously. I am used to hearing the fuel boil occasionally while riding, but this time their was a definite pressure differential when I removed the cap and the fuel splashed for about 30 seconds while it boiled like crazy. I pulled the vent hose from the frame and could see fuel vapors streaming out for about a full minute. Meanwhile, the bike still did not start until about 8-10 minutes had passed and then it ran great all day.

I wonder if the breather in the cap is not breathing, or getting stuck somehow. There is a ball check valve in the fuel cap right?

When I initially had this problem, my fuel was boiling too. However, since removing the on-way vlave in the breather line and the days getting cooler, I have not had my fuel boil again, yet my no-start problem continues. As I posted above, even when riding 3 - 4th gear open track, I get a failure to start after I shut down. Otherwise the bike runs fine.

flyinbryan said:

JonnyQ,Has your bike every died like it ran out of gas or just failed to restart??

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No, it has never died. It runs perfectly fine. It just fails to restart if I shut it off. It needs a 15 minute or so "rest" before it will restart. My dealer is going to send me the tank (complete with all the guts) from his demo bike. If that doesnt' fix my problem I'll be amazed. Either way, it will really narrow down th possibilities.

My bike (2010 390) did the exact same thing this weekend at the Maine National. It ran great through the whole first section then I shut it off waiting for the start of section 2 and it wouldn't restart. Watched my row and about 50 other rows take off and it still wouldn't start. It finally started after row 78 left (I was on 22) so I called it a day.
It happened to 3 other bikes that I know of. At least 1 of them never started. Searching for some answers just like everyone else.
Gary

That's exactly how my first encounter to this occurred: during an enduro. During that occurance (after watching row after row take off from a reset), I pushed my bike to a nearby puddle and splashed lots of water on the engine for several minutes until it was cool enough to touch. It still would not start. On all occurances, it needed to sit for 15 minutes or so despite how hot the engine felt. Therefore, I'm thinking that it's related to the temperature of the fuel pump which is the same as the temperature of the gas. The gas would take a while to cool down and would not be affected by my splashing lots of water on the engine. Also, the only time that my bike DID restart after a shutdown was when I had to refuel. I was riding hard until my low fuel light came on. I rode back to the car, shut it off, refueled (with cool gas) and it fired right up! I then rode another half hour or so, shut it off, and it wouldn't restart.

With all these occurrences all sounding so similar, what the h@ll do the factory reps say about it??? It
seems to me somebody at Husaberg knows about this. It has to have happened to one of the factory
rides at some point. Hey dealer members, any idea's?

One of my buddy's I rode with this weekend at the National, his bike just died on the trail at the 18 mile mark and never restarted. It still won't start and there is no fuel pump buzz at all. Our dealer is trying to get some info for us and is doing the best he can . We are both bringing our bikes to the dealer to have him plug them in and see if anything comes up.
Last week the same guy had is bike not want to start but it finally did but took several tries to keep it running. Now one week later it happens again.
I forgot to mention in my previos post that my bike refused to start after shutting it off on a mellow trail ride last week. It took 5 or 6 tries to get it to start and run for more than a few seconds. After it started it ran great the rest of the ride. I'll let you know if we come up with anything.

flyinbryan said:

It is interesting that nobody else has had their bikes just quit running.They all have a failure to start issue.Perhaps I have been experiencing the same problem while running when the pump shuts down and I "run out of gas"until things cool off for a few minutes.

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flyinbryan

I have had a similar issue to the one you have described on my 09 FE570. It has been awhile since it occurred (summer and its now winter). Got to the top of a reasonably steep hill and the bike just died like it was out of juice and wouldn't start. Left it a couple of minutes as it was pretty hot and it then started no worries. No FI indicator. This was the second time that it happened in the 60 hrs on the bike.

I had this same thing happen to me on my 09 FE450 three times this past week while riding Taylor Park in Colorado after negotitating some particularly slow going 1st gear climbs. The first time we stopped to wait for some riders to pass coming the other direction. I shut my bike off to wait for the guys to pass. Bike was off for several minutes. After the guys passed by, I hit the button, the bike started and I took off. I went about 10 feet and the bike bogged and died like it had run out of gas. I immeditately hit the button again and the engine would turn over but would not fire up. I had been following this thread so I figured I was having the same issue as others were having. The bike was definitely hot after the climb up to where we were at. Periodically over the next few minutes I would hit the button to see if it would start. After about 5 to 10 minutes it finally started right up and off I went like nothing had ever happened. It never happened again that day.

The next day out we had some early first geat climbs but I didn't have any re-start issues until the afternoon after another long climb. We stopped and sat for about 10 minutes. I was remembering the day before so was thinking about the possiblility of it not starting. So, when we got ready to go, I hit the button, it started right up, but this time I decided I would sit and rev the bike a bit before I put it in gear and took off to see if was going to die. It ran like normal so I put it in gear and took off. Just like the day before, it ran for about 10 feet and died like it was out of gas. It was weird becasue I sat there and revved it for 10 - 15 seconds before I put it in gear to leave and it was fine, but after running in gear for a few feet it died.

I had it happen one more time that day, but like everyone else, after I sat and let the bike cool for several minutes it would start up and run just fine. This is definitely a heat related issue and something that happens after the bike is shut off. I have a fan and it was running, so that doesn't seem to have an impact on this problem. There is some issue with fuel delivery after the bike sits for several minutes when hot. I did not have this occur if I would not leave the bike shut off for very long before re-starting. I never had the bike die while it was already running, it only happened after it was shut off.

At this point I am not worried about being stranded, as I am confident that it will start up after cooling off, but it is an irritating problem that Husaberg needs to get on top of, as more and more of us are experiencing it. The other thing I am wondering is if the fuel mapping is correct for high altitudes. This seemed to happen when I was at 10,000 ft. or higher in altitude where the bike was getting very hot. Is it possible that the map is too lean at that altitude?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm,

I'm wondering if there is some kind of safe mode in the ECU from the coolant sensor that when it see's too high of temp it shuts things down. This is just a stab in the dark, but, something is telling that portion of the ECU to open the circuit for the fuel pump.

Of course, after I say what I'm about to this will happen to me........I have never experienced this problem with my 09 570. I have done a fair share of low speed riding in some pretty warm conditions with the fan screaming for hours on end, and it has never exhibited any of these symptoms after a shut down and a restart. My bike does have the 2010 closed course map in.

Dale

DaleEO said:

Hmmmmmmmmmmm,

I'm wondering if there is some kind of safe mode in the ECU from the coolant sensor that when it see's too high of temp it shuts things down. This is just a stab in the dark, but, something is telling that portion of the ECU to open the circuit for the fuel pump.

Of course, after I say what I'm about to this will happen to me........I have never experienced this problem with my 09 570. I have done a fair share of low speed riding in some pretty warm conditions with the fan screaming for hours on end, and it has never exhibited any of these symptoms after a shut down and a restart. My bike does have the 2010 closed course map in.

Dale

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I thought about the same thing, but the behavior doesn't make sense for that type of shutdown. I would think that the ECU wouldn't let the bike start at all if it was too hot. On the other hand, maybe with the bike off the ECU has no idea the engine is that hot. Once the bike starts and the ECU starts getting feedback from the sensors it figures out that it is too hot and shuts down. The only thing that doesn't make sense with that logic is that I started mine and let it rev for a short time before I took off, and it didn't shut down until I started moving. There is something that is occuring once the bike shuts down that doesn't occur while it is running.

Can fuel injected bikes vapor lock? It seems that after is starts there is some small amount of fuel left in the system to let the bike run for a short time, but the fuel pump never delivers any more. What we need is a technical expert from Husaberg that knows this bike's electronics to take the information provided by everyone that has experienced this issue and figure out how it could be happening. They need to look at every system and determine what effects heat will have on it, especially as it relates to fuel delivery. I am also suspicious that the fuel mapping is correct for high altitude, as like you, I have had my berg plenty hot while riding here around Vegas, and haven't experienced this problem. I have even raced at up to 6000 ft. without this happening.

On mine I have determined that when it won't start, I get power to the connector on top of the tank, but the fuel pump does not spin. If you just barely stab the starter button and release it (not long enough to start the bike), you will hear the fuel pump run for 2 - 3 seconds. Try that during the times when it won't start. If your bike it like mine, the pump wil not energize durign those times. If power is getting ot the pump, yet the pump does not run, I'd think it's got to be the pump.

JohnnyQuest said:

On mine I have determined that when it won't start, I get power to the connector on top of the tank, but the fuel pump does not spin. If you just barely stab the starter button and release it (not long enough to start the bike), you will hear the fuel pump run for 2 - 3 seconds. Try that during the times when it won't start. If your bike it like mine, the pump wil not energize durign those times. If power is getting ot the pump, yet the pump does not run, I'd think it's got to be the pump.

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I've tried very hard to do exactly that, and get the fuel pump to buzz for a few seconds. I have never gotten it to run either.

FWIW,

The 2010's came with a one way valve in the vent line between the cap and where the vent line hooks to the frame. There is also another vent line inside the stock cap, it's just a little plastic ball, that seals quite well.

As mentioned earlier in this post, folks have talked about built of pressure in their tanks, even without the inline check valve. That's b/c the little check valve ball in the cap has seated itself in the closed position due to the pressure in the tank escaping. This sound has been mistaken by many in my opinion as the sound of the fuel boiling when in fact it's just this little ball jumping up and down in the cap.

Just for the heck of it, why not take your stock cap apart and remove the little check valve ball. It's really just there to keep fuel from running more freely out of your vent in the event of a tip over. I always run my tank vent down to the skid plate anyways to keep the slop off of the frame, or out of the steering stem when it was done that way. And in the past stopped running those one way valves to keep pressure from building up in my gas tanks on my 01 and 04 bikes. The only time I use them now is when I'm transporting the bikes in my toy hauler to keep the gas from the tank from filling the trailer with fumes!

You will also notice that the hole on the inside of the cap is smaller than on the outside where you hook the vent line up to. I took a drill and sized it to the outside hole, and then drilled it through to the inside. This should provide adequate ventilation as the fuel expands and or vaporizes, and therefore no pressure inside the tank.

I know this is just a shot in the dark, as this whole issue seems to be related to heat. But, at least this way you won't get the cap blown off in your hand and covered with fuel. Which seems really weird as one would think that with the smaller capacity, and less horsepower, and the same size radiators, that the bike would produce less heat overall...........

Just wondering, Has anyone had any issues with a 450? It seems like most of the problems have been with the 390's & 570's...