Timing chain tensioner -09

sparks said:

To me the answer is there for every one to see, if there's nothing wrong with the original unit why has a company gone to all the trouble to make an after market unit, which seems to have cured the problem.

Regards

Sparks.

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Well probably the same reason there is so many after market parts available .There is how many after market chain guides for any bike that do the same function as the stock one just different.Same way with seats, tires ,valves ,pistons and even oil.
Take from it what you will but there is always going to be aftermarket that replaces stock parts .

11.4 hours and around 200 miles and no problems.

Well probably the same reason there is so many after market parts available .There is how many after market chain guides for any bike that do the same function as the stock one just different.Same way with seats, tires ,valves ,pistons and even oil.
Take from it what you will but there is always going to be aftermarket that replaces stock parts .[/quote]


I hear what you are saying, but the for-mentioned aftermarket parts are all consumables,
but a camchain tensioner I think not.

Regards

Sparks.

AUSBERG said:

This thread takes me back a bit....

2002
" No. There is no problem with the rocker arms. You are using the wrong oil.

"I've had no problems with the main bearings- You must be using the wrong oil.

Whether we like it or not, if a bike has a manufacturing or design defect eventually enough users logging up enough hours will begin to uncover it.

To deny it exists just because a certain user group spectrum hasnt yet encountered it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

This current "potential issue" should be treated the same way.

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Exactly, and thats what makes this site so great,
Thanks to Dale for analysing this possible issue so clearly and Midwest & Dustbite for giving us a fix.
The majority of bike owners on this site are not mechanics or engineers so being armed with decent information enables us tokick up a stink with the dealerand get something done.
As Taffy says , dont expect ktm/berg dealers to pay out for anything or admit to a problem, because they wont!
I bought a ktm 530 in aug 07 and it was a pig to start right from the off, it would drag at tdc on the starter, drain the battery and i would end up kicking it, once started it was fine but it cost me dearly on dead engine race starts and i couldnt work out the proiblem.
Went to the dealer a couple of times, valves too tight, valves too loose, no spot on, battery charge, jetting blah blah, then they had the starting gear to bits and turned a shim round, said it was ok....BShite. This was happening to hundreds of the 08 bikes so they must have known and they still owe me money.
Its sold now but 18 months on they are now , for some, changing the08 cams with 09 to solve the problem.
Heres the thread from ktmtalk that covers it all:

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?s=131c5b0e ... pic=321054

There is also a long thread on ktmtalk about dirttrick tensioners as well.

Bottom line is my berg fe570 is the best bike ive ever owned, that inc drz, yam and ktms 400, 450 525, 530. Runs like a dream, 260 miles 9.5 hours, no problems. Went into garage tonight after one month, no tricklie charge, -5 degrees, pushed the button once and she fires up, how sweet is that?

And , if i do get the tensioner problem, its still the best bike ive ever owned .

Cheers,
Nick

Midwest had this to say in his post: "This slight rattle is due to the adjuster ratchet in between teeth. As the chain gets slightly longer it will then go away. We have had no problems with this system, though if you don't change oil regularly it might affect the performance of the adjuster. There is a solution and it's not fitting a manual adjuster. All you have to do is undue the 21mm nut on top of the adjuster until you here a click this is the ratchet adjusting to the next tension. Then re-tighten the nut to 30Nm or 22.1 lb.ft. Caution this is the 21mm nut which is the second one on the cam chain adjuster stack".

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I just got back from Husaberg NA Technical School and this is what they told the dealers to do. They demonstrated it on a bike and it worked.

Could someone post a photo of this 21mm nut?

Mrpwr said:

Could someone post a photo of this 21mm nut?

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In the first post by swedishsteel in this thread there are a couple of links follow the dirtricks one and you will see what you seek.

Hi,
Going back to the issue on starting for the 08 ktms.
Here is a report showing the changing of 08 with new 09 cam and a link towards the end of the guy fitting a dirttricks tensioner.
I presume theparts may be the same as the 09 bergs? I'm not sure.
Its interesting reading nonetheless.

http://www.omraoffroad.com/forum/viewto ... 7925#27925


Nick

Obviously if Midwests adjustment to the tensioner works, which it looks as though it does , then theres no need for a dirttricks tensioner.

Scott, looking at your adjust report from Midwest.
Does that mean a rattle now and again, say off a cold engine start if its been standing for a few weeks is ok as long as it goes away?

Cheers, Nick

Update:

I spoke with my mech friend again and he had a suggestion to help alleviate the start up rattle. Leave the bike at TDC on compression when you park it, this will help keep the strain off of the cam chain, and thus the tensioner, and should help keep the tensioner's oil from bleeding off in between rides through the check valve.

Dale

DaleEO said:

Update:

I spoke with my mech friend again and he had a suggestion to help alleviate the start up rattle. Leave the bike at TDC on compression when you park it, this will help keep the strain off of the cam chain, and thus the tensioner, and should help keep the tensioner's oil from bleeding off in between rides through the check valve.

Dale

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Hi Dale,
That sounds good, i would like to do that, but heres where my ignorance of engines comes in.
Whats the best way to know i have TDC on comp ?
I have a rekluse fitted.

Thanks,
Nick

NKW570 said:

DaleEO said:

Update:

I spoke with my mech friend again and he had a suggestion to help alleviate the start up rattle. Leave the bike at TDC on compression when you park it, this will help keep the strain off of the cam chain, and thus the tensioner, and should help keep the tensioner's oil from bleeding off in between rides through the check valve.

Dale

Click to expand...

Hi Dale,
That sounds good, i would like to do that, but heres where my ignorance of engines comes in.
Whats the best way to know i have TDC on comp ?
I have a rekluse fitted.

Thanks,
Nick

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I don't know how you'd put it there as you don't have a way to put the bike in gear and roll it forward to compression.

Dale

there seems to be some confusiion about whether these tensioners are hydrolic or mechanical. i have a 04 950 adventure that's has given me fits with cam chain noise. i finially decided to do something about it so i removed the one easiest to get to (right side). turns out thats where the noise from comming from anyway. i wanted to see how they worked so i went ahead and cut it apart....that's the only way to get them apart. anyway they are simple but pretty interesting. there's a light spring that holds them fully extended. there's an input oil hole. the oil output flows along side the piston then along side the tensioner and out of the picture. there is a check valve at the input hole. bottom line is there's nothing to go wrong except the check valve. the one i took apart looked fine. anyway i replaced the tensioner since i destroyed the old one and guess what....no more noise

now if the bergs tensioners are the same as the ktm 950, first off they're fully hydrolic and loosining the cap will do nothing. and i'm not suprised there's a bunch of flakey ones

dougn1 said:

there seems to be some confusiion about whether these tensioners are hydrolic or mechanical. i have a 04 950 adventure that's has given me fits with cam chain noise. i finially decided to do something about it so i removed the one easiest to get to (right side). turns out thats where the noise from comming from anyway. i wanted to see how they worked so i went ahead and cut it apart....that's the only way to get them apart. anyway they are simple but pretty interesting. there's a light spring that holds them fully extended. there's an input oil hole. the oil output flows along side the piston then along side the tensioner and out of the picture. there is a check valve at the input hole. bottom line is there's nothing to go wrong except the check valve. the one i took apart looked fine. anyway i replaced the tensioner since i destroyed the old one and guess what....no more noise

now if the bergs tensioners are the same as the ktm 950, first off they're fully hydrolic and loosining the cap will do nothing. and i'm not suprised there's a bunch of flakey ones

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Hey Doug,

The tensioners that have been around since 05 have a couple of washers in them that lock into grooves on the inside of the body of the tensioner. That's why, as mentioned earlier in this thread there is a reset procedure for the tensioner. So apparently, your post taken at face value, the design of the tensioners have changed internally. And as mentioned earlier in the post, loosening the 21mm nut is a fix being taught at the tech school, this to correct and "in between" adjustment with the washers on the current design.

i guess the question is, are they the same as the ktm 950/990 tensioners?

dougn1 said:

i guess the question is, are they the same as the ktm 950/990 tensioners?

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page 4 of this thread 3rd post from the top

/quote]

page 4 of this thread 3rd post from the top[/quote]

i'm not showing that. same LC8 p/n from the get-go...and there's no washers or anything like that inside

dougn1 said:

/quote]

page 4 of this thread 3rd post from the top

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i'm not showing that. same LC8 p/n from the get-go...and there's no washers or anything like that inside[/quote]

The LC 8 book I looked in, in the cross section view, you could/can see the washers that are in there. Maybe they made a change to the part but retained the same part number?

well i have to get to the bottom of this. there are a lot of cam chain rattle issues with the ktm twins and everyone is trying to figure it out....ktm is not to open with information

The Husaberg tensioner has blocking mechanism inside, which is supposed to block it from retracting more than a couple of millimeters. When the tensioner is fully extracted it's retraction blocking mechanism is disabled, and you must fully compress it to activate again the retraction prevention mechanism. However, if after full extraction you do not compress it all the way in, so that the inside cylinder goes about flat with the outside, the blocking mechanism is not activated and one can have problems, because it will not work as designed.