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Timing chain tensioner -09

Hi Pollo,

It might be that the husaberg is new, the tensioner certainly is not, see my copy/paste thingy below:


Part number Name
77036003000 CHAIN ADJUSTER HYD. 05

Retail Price Inc VAT: 44,88


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the tensioner exists since 2005...and it has a KTM partnumber. the first three digits denote the KTM bike. (perhaps there are readers who can tell which bike)
Big chance the problem also exists since 2005.

Factories will always try not to pay for new parts/labor in warranty cases and KTM in particular. Factories are like political parties: deny there is a problem until it is so obvious you can't deny anymore or until you (the factory) finally fixed the problem
 
Well dustbite. If this tensioner is on my bike it works just fine. If not then the one on it works just fine as well because i've never had the problem. So what your saying is that in some of these 09s we see that the tensioner in incompatible.
Pollo
 
Hi Pollo
We're talking about the new style hydraulic tensioner that's on the new 09 bergs.
It's been around on the KTMs for a while and has the same problems - except if you ask a KTM dealer/mechanic.
So much so that aftermarket companies are making re-designed ones that work.
 
This slight rattle is due to the adjuster ratchet in between teeth. As the chain gets slightly longer it will then go away. We have had no problems with this system, though if you don't change oil regularly it might affect the performance of the adjuster. There is a solution and it's not fitting a manual adjuster. All you have to do is undue the 21mm nut on top of the adjuster until you here a click this is the ratchet adjusting to the next tension. Then re-tighten the nut to 30Nm or 22.1 lb.ft. Caution this is the 21mm nut which is the second one on the cam chain adjuster stack.
 
We also noticed that some of you are running 10W40 semi-sythetic oil but the 2009 bike needs 10W50 fully sythetic from new all the time.
 
I´ve tested 5w-40,10w-40 and 10w-50 fully synthetic with absolutely no difference.It seems like it´s something wrong with the ratchet system on my failing tensioner.Sometimes it locks completely in the middle of the stroke.With a 3mm washer(with grooves allowing the oil to flow) behind the tensioner to get it in a different position it seems to work just fine.
 
it sounds to me like the teeth ae too course? if the teeth need help to climb to the next tooth then it's a poor design.

now here is a question. without googling it you buggers!

"rack and pinion" (railways) that's the answer. who knows owt about 'em?

regards

Taffy
 
Coastie said:
KTM mechanic never heard of it ????
He's either telling porkies or he's not real good. Sound like a pretty widespread problem to me.
The Dirt tricks tensioner looks like a good fix but dunno how that would affect warranty.
Not that you should have to use aftermarket solutions to a factory problem anyway.
If this problems been around for a year why the hell would they persist with using the same POS.
Perhaps KTM should get in touch with Dirt tricks.

My good KTM mechanic rang me up the other day and started the conversation by saying "Hey it's your KTM Mechanic that's not real good" after which we both burst into a good long laugh. Coastie, he also found your insuation that he would hide, read lie, about a known problem that KTM would be having amusing. He invited me over to the shop to show me what he knew about the hydraulic cam chain tensioner.

First this design has been around for some time on the KTM model line, in fact the same hydraulic tensioner is on models from the 250 SXF to the LC8 990 adventure. This same design is also found on other brands and models of bikes, sorry can't remember them at the moment.

On the KTM bikes with this tensioner, when the valves are adjusted, it is necessary to remove the cam. And since the cam is coming out the tensioner has to be removed. There is a very detailed 3 step procedure for resetting the cam chain tensioner of this type before re assembly. Apparently there are a couple of washers inside that perform as a sort of lock to keep the tensioner taught for lack of a better way of putting it, and this set up procedure in the KTM shop manual get's things set up right.

My mechanic friend did have one experience with a tensioner not working correctly after he had pulled it out to adjust valves on a bike. He simply removed the tensioner, did the set procedure again and it worked perfectly. Further, they have not had this problem come into their shop--ever, that includes 250's, 450's, 530's, 950's or 990's.

He also went on to tell me that at the KTM mechanics school, they, the KTM techs, were adamant about checking the oil pressure at the galley plug on the front of the motor, on the left side of the motor. There is a small torx bit oil galley plug there where one is to check the oil pressure.

Also, it is my uderstanding that the tensioner cannot be dis assembled.

I was not able to get a copy of the page out of the KTM shop manual, however, if those of you who are having problems can get a copy yourself and just try resetting the tensioner as mentioned in the book to see if that alleviates your problem.

Dustbite stated in his post: " Both my bikes have now done close to a 100 hours/ 4000km and the problem didn't return. Still use the same tensioners, even use the same o-rings!
After the problem occured I dismantled, cleaned and put back together".


Midwest had this to say in his post: "This slight rattle is due to the adjuster ratchet in between teeth. As the chain gets slightly longer it will then go away. We have had no problems with this system, though if you don't change oil regularly it might affect the performance of the adjuster. There is a solution and it's not fitting a manual adjuster. All you have to do is undue the 21mm nut on top of the adjuster until you here a click this is the ratchet adjusting to the next tension. Then re-tighten the nut to 30Nm or 22.1 lb.ft. Caution this is the 21mm nut which is the second one on the cam chain adjuster stack".

I am not saying it doesn't happen, and Gazza's report definitely lends credence that the tesnioners, at least in some cases are bad. However it cannot be ignored that there are a lot of KTM's out there using this type of tensioner without any problems.

What's up over at KTM talk about this subject? Someone said recently that there was more 09 Berg reports there than there were here. Anyone of them mention this problem?
 
DaleEO said:
check the oil pressure at the galley plug on the front of the motor, on the left side of the motor. There is a small torx bit oil galley plug there where one is to check the oil pressure

dale

i'm sure that KTM haven't had a problem. but husabergs have ok?

and no matter how long winded your mail, or how you laughed at those that laughed at it, it's like pissing against a panzer halftrack so lets stop it. owners have their evidence, let's not belittle them by saying "well i know 9 people who are happy".

i doubt fry would suggest that the IQ of the owner's will get better as the bike passes through hands/owners. so it's gotta be sorted. you can ***** about the oil or the mechanic but the part should LAST a lifetime! and whn sold used, the bikes will have to go longer between oil changes and quality.

fact is KTM don't want to do this as a "call back" otherwise it'll cost them a ship load of money so expect a mod for '10 and BTW you '09 guys must pay for it! they will say nothing japanese style.

once they get past this year and a mod they are in the clear and infact with you, the owner paying for the upgrade - far from losing money they make it!!!!!!!!!! ship loads.

so it all depends on the stink you want to make of it as owners. the only place that could cause them trouble is a european husaberg website and here at UHE.

this leaves you iin a strange position.
the new bergites should be the ones getting upset but don't know the marquee or whether to be miffed or not coz they check the reactions of: the old bergites who are used to the failures and a bit of DIY and can't be bothered to even complain. so who will win the day?

i'd be angry and do something but i'm a 'character' - whatever that is.

NOW TO THE PROBLEM
if the engne is laid over it ain't getting any oil in there is it!

what worked at 5 degrees isn't working at 70 degrees is it!

regards

Taffy
 
Taffy said:
NOW TO THE PROBLEM
if the engne is laid over it ain't getting any oil in there is it!

what worked at 5 degrees isn't working at 70 degrees is it!

regards

Taffy

I agree - I've been thinking the same myself, there have been reports of a few katooms with the same issue, but the problem seems alot more frequent on the bergs.

The most obvious difference is the angle of the cylinder..

/J
 
Taffy said:
NOW TO THE PROBLEM
if the engne is laid over it ain't getting any oil in there is it!
Of course it is.The oil screen and oil pump is in a "normal" position anyway and the angle of the cylinder will not affect the oil pressure.

Taffy said:
what worked at 5 degrees isn't working at 70 degrees is it!
It doesn´t work at 5 degrees either...
 
[/quote]

dale
and no matter how long winded your mail, or how you laughed at those that laughed at it, it's like pissing against a panzer halftrack so lets stop it. owners have their evidence, let's not belittle them by saying "well i know 9 people who are happy".

regards

Taffy[/quote]

Most respectfully submitted to my honorable friend Taffy.......The mechanic that I mentioned is a friend of mine and, it is my opinion that his integrity is beyond reproach. Further, I would like to know what this man has forgotten, let alone what he does know. I am positive that his resume' would impress you all, and he is a true enthusiast. I had sent him the link to this thread for him to read and give me any feed back on the subject as I knew his experience, knowledge, curiosity, and ingenuity would come to play on this subject. My expectations were not misplaced as I got about a one hour tutoring session on this one part, for free. And I then was able to pass along the information that he had to all of you.

And what did he get for his initial response to my question? Answer=A slight from a poster here. And in spite of that he gave me the tutoring session for free so that I would know about the part, and he of course knew that I would pass this along to the body.

Now to the aspect of belittling. The only reason I made mention of Coasties comments and my friend and I's enjoyment of his comments is that I feel that his comments were prejudicial and quite frankly rude, misplaced and insulted his honor, and therefore my honor. I will defend anyone's honor or face that I know to be of high character, just like I did for you recently Taffy, when a poster here was stringing up some dirty laundry in just about all the forums about you and thankfully I happened to check in and erase all of them, and then have a chat with the poster to calm him down a bit. I was glad to do it to maintain not only the integrity of this site, but, for you, someone I am happy to call friend.

Thats one of the things I'm always bragging on this site about is that flaming of people is pretty much not tolerated. So as far as belittling, I most respectfully submit, that I don't see it that way, I see the comments as not only an insult to my friend, but, to me. To that end I shall not waiver in my conviction.

Now then, on to the topic at hand.

I checked in over at KTM talk and there are numerous posts about problems with the cam chain tensioner. Some have gone to the dirt tricks solution and are quite satisfied. Others have had problems and have had success along the route of Dustbite and Midwest's solutions.

Again, I would say to anyone who is having the problem to try resetting it as per the KTM manuals procedure, and Dustbites suggestion, or perhaps try Midwest's solution.

I think it would be appreciated by the body, that if those solutions are tried and they don't work please let us know.

I would be especially interested in fourstroke force trying the Midwest solution and to know the result, since he has already tried three different new tensioners. Also, fourstroke force, have you had the oil pressure checked at the point I mentioned? Might be worth it to know for the long run and the longevity of your motor.

Thanks,

Dale
 
yes sorry dale, perhps belittle was too strong a word. and although i could add to the subject...less is good!

anon

rather than ay then that it doesn't get enough oil i'll say no more as i haven't been near one of the tensioners BUT i've been around a few! the angle of the dangle is in it somewhere or maybe the KTM lads gave the husey boys a duff batch! LOL!!!!

regards

Taffy
 
Well looks like I struck a nerve.
I didn't really mean to insult anybody just highlight the fact that KTM dealers look at the world thru orange coloured glasses.
My local KTM dealer lets me know constantly how much he dislikes Bergs and tells me that he's never rebuilt an EXC motor due to a failure. Please............ :roll: I would have believed him if he told me that he's only done a few over the years.
Probably no different to the bias shown by dealers of other brands but I'm in the position where I have to buy parts for my Berg from KTM.
BTW - I don't go to him anymore.

Now to the problem at hand:
Oh sorry - there is no problem.
His simple answer was NO, nor had he heard of any of these problems.
Oh hang on a minute .......
My mechanic friend did have one experience with a tensioner not working correctly after he had pulled it out to adjust valves on a bike.

Perhaps his answer to your first enquiry should have been it needs to be pulled out and setup correctly. Every time I do valves on a Kato we need to do that.
Does he use KTMtalk?? :wink:
 
Coastie said:
Well looks like I struck a nerve.
I didn't really mean to insult anybody just highlight the fact that KTM dealers look at the world thru orange coloured glasses.
My local KTM dealer lets me know constantly how much he dislikes Bergs and tells me that he's never rebuilt an EXC motor due to a failure. Please............ :roll: I would have believed him if he told me that he's only done a few over the years.
Probably no different to the bias shown by dealers of other brands but I'm in the position where I have to buy parts for my Berg from KTM.
BTW - I don't go to him anymore.

Now to the problem at hand:
Oh sorry - there is no problem.
His simple answer was NO, nor had he heard of any of these problems.
Oh hang on a minute .......
[quote:1fi8mxvx]
My mechanic friend did have one experience with a tensioner not working correctly after he had pulled it out to adjust valves on a bike.

Perhaps his answer to your first enquiry should have been it needs to be pulled out and setup correctly. Every time I do valves on a Kato we need to do that.
Does he use KTMtalk?? :wink:[/quote:1fi8mxvx]

I'm not sure if he goes to KTM talk or not, I didn't ask him that. And just so there is clarity, I asked him if he had heard of problems with these tensioners, as in wide spread.

I re sent him the link to this thread this morning so he can check it out if he wants.

I had briefly checked in there yesterday on the new generation section and did a search for cam chain tensioners, and found several threads. When I have time I will go through and read them all in more detail so my information will be more quantitative. I just skimmed through them the first time.
 
This thread takes me back a bit....

2002
" No. There is no problem with the rocker arms. You are using the wrong oil.

"I've had no problems with the main bearings- You must be using the wrong oil.

Whether we like it or not, if a bike has a manufacturing or design defect eventually enough users logging up enough hours will begin to uncover it.

To deny it exists just because a certain user group spectrum hasnt yet encountered it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

This current "potential issue" should be treated the same way.
 
so i have read this thread over and over again but its still unclear to me what the working solution is. im picking up my bike on tuesday and i want to sort this out prior to leaving the shop.
just thought i might add that i love the info in these forums. keep it up boys and remember .... we are all here to help one another( to show those pumpkin KTMs that we are far from lemons) :D
 
The problem is that the timing chain goes out of adjustment and the auto adjuster gets stuck between teeth on its clicker.The quickest way is to back off the 21mm nut and with your fingers loosen it till it clicks then tighten it back up.
Other option is to replace with another adjuster that's under $80 and solves it but for the most part its not common to all the bikes so get yours and see how it goes.
 
To me the answer is there for every one to see, if there's nothing wrong with the original unit why has a company gone to all the trouble to make an after market unit, which seems to have cured the problem.

Regards

Sparks.
 

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