Timing chain tensioner -09

Today I took the bike for a ride and the sound is back!!!!! Then it disapers and then it´s back again.

Just thinking out loud, the 10w/50 that is recommended is a heavy oil, is that what most are using or a more normal 40 grade oil.

Chris

i would call 10w a thin oil and 5w super thin.

careful with that 5w. if you run on it for any length of time it'll be like pisswater!

regards

Taffy

Fourstrokeforce said:

5w-40 is thinner when cold but it`s still a 40 at operating temperature.

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incorrect.

it has the viscocity of a 5W but has the viscocity THAT A STRAIGHT 40 WOULD HAVE when hot.

i think - 5w is too thin. 10W is good for all seasons and 15 might be better even in the summer. i see where people are going. but i prefer 15 summer and std in the winter and NOT std in the summer and 5 in the winter

regards

Taffy

right.... so the most important time for an engine isn't when it's warm but when it's just beenbeing started! it may reach breakdown point once in it's lifetime but everytime you start it you start it from COLD. so get your oil sorted for cold not hot. hot is already sorted (as you point out).

i think we're agreeing mostly....

regards

Taffy

It was the operating temp number I was thinking about with regard to the tensioner. On warm up the oil pressure should be high till the oil warms up.

Chris

so any fix to the cam tensioner??im picking up my 450 next week and dont really want to be heading back into the shop. i wanna ride this baby.

The W in 10W-40 stands for "Winter" and is a measure of the cold flow properties of the oil, as measured at I believe - 32F. The polymers in the oil expand with heat, kind like a spider that would be curled up when cold, and then when it gets warm it uncurls to maintain "viscosity". These polymers that make multigrade oil possible are subject to shearing in the transmission, and once sheared loose their ability to maintain the higher viscosity at higher temps.

Viscosity is just one of the factors in an oil ability to provide proper film strength and lubrication in a motor. The additive package, of which the two main ingredients are Zinc and Phosphorus are most important.

Just a tid bit more on oil here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#Multi-grade

To the main topic.

I spoke with a very good KTM mechanic the other day about the hydraulic cam chain tensioner problem that was reported here and asked if he had seen any of these problems on the KTM's with the similar tensioner. His simple answer was NO, nor had he heard of any of these problems. I"m not saying they don't exist by any means, but this mechanic sees a fair amount of bikes. And other than this site and the provided Youtube video, I have not seen it reported in my local area as well, and there are a lot of KTM's in the local race area.

That being said, I have almost 8 hours on my 570 now and have not encountered that problem. So far I have been running a non synthetic version of Motul, 3100, 10W-40 for the break in period of my bike. I am also running the Scott's stainless oil filter as well.

I was out riding with a local motorcycle news papers test group last weekend, and they had an 09 450 with about 10 hours on it, and there was no problem with it either.

I will of course post if I have the problem with mine.

It seems that the only members having this problem are in Sweden, and the Youtube vid, I can't find a country of origin.

I have a question, when the bike revs up a bit, does the problem go away? If they are supposed to keep tension with oil pressure, in theory the oil pressure usually rises a bit at higher revs. And while there has been conversation about oil, what brand of oil are our troubled members running? Does it have the same indexes as the specified Motorex oil? Does this happen with brand new oil and filters? Has the oil pick up screen been cleaned?

Ok this is not what I had hoped to hear.

I have just gotten back from the Dakar rallye in Argentina & Chile where nearly all the KTM EXC-R bikes, both 450 and 530, had this issue, with the majority of them DNF'ing out of the race, '08 & '09 models.

To try to get some of them to the finish in BA, the KTM Factory Rally support truck made during the rallye a manual tensioner for riders to fit.

I have since spoken to the Aussie KTM factory team mechanic here and again they replace the hydrualic tensioner with a manual one.

The analysis at both the Dakar and here is it is gunk in the oil causes it to jam.

Solutions are

1) change oil a lot !!! or

2) if you need high daily mileage like I do on a rallye, change it to a manual tensioner !!

Expect a different design in 2010 !!!

by manual tensioner do u mean the dirt tricks one or one that you adjust and then lock it wit a lock nut??

Gazza said:

Ok this is not what I had hoped to hear.

I have just gotten back from the Dakar rallye in Argentina & Chile where nearly all the KTM EXC-R bikes, both 450 and 530, had this issue, with the majority of them DNF'ing out of the race, '08 & '09 models.

To try to get some of them to the finish in BA, the KTM Factory Rally support truck made during the rallye a manual tensioner for riders to fit.

I have since spoken to the Aussie KTM factory team mechanic here and again they replace the hydrualic tensioner with a manual one.

The analysis at both the Dakar and here is it is gunk in the oil causes it to jam.

Solutions are

1) change oil a lot !!! or

2) if you need high daily mileage like I do on a rallye, change it to a manual tensioner !!

Expect a different design in 2010 !!!

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting with overwhelming evidence that it is wide spread problem and not just a few that were bad. Hopefully, the 2010 will drop in to the 08 & 09 bikes.

Dale

On my bike the problem don´t go away if I rev it up more, it´s just sounds more :S
It sound when the bike is cold and hot and whit new oil and filter. Some times the sound can stop but just for a while and then it´s back.

I posted a while back on this subject. Got an answer from the portuguese importer which I believe comes very close to the truth. Here is his answer:

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Timing chain tensioner – take care to assemble it as it is shown (on getting in again, press it completely until it reaches blocking position and then with a kickback you stretch it against chain.
I believe it’s an Aquiles weakness – chain tensioner works on mechanic pre-tensioning and hydraulic buffer – when you hear it, there’s no hydraulic buffering and chain is loosen in a bit.

- Mainly happens when you start the bike after long periods with engine stop;
- Can happen with loss of oil pressure mainly due to (from small problem to worst nightmare):
o Tensioner O-ring or screwcap can cause oil leakage to timing chain case and loss of backpressure and lower buffering result;
o Oil duct too narrow for the needed oil stream to high oil pressure ;
(BOTH UPPER CASES YOU CAN CHECK EASILY WITH PRESSURE DIAGNOSTIC with special tool and a manometer directly applied on timing chain cap – normally >2,5 bar)
o Low oil level with not enough inside to cause right pressure OR too much oil inside;
o Leakage on lubrication system causing low pressure;
o Damaged oil pumps;

On the KTMs, the problem was significantly reduced by replacing the O-ring and, someother cases, adaptating a new one so it seals completely well the back oil chamber to get the right and continuous pressure.
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I think it is just the o-ring. Since my bikes didn't dye on me yet due to oil/lubrication problems and don't even consider the other possibilities.

Both my bikes have now done close to a 100 hours/ 4000km and the problem didn't return. Still use the same tensioners, even use the same o-rings!
After the problem occured I dismantled, cleaned and put back together.

That's all, perhaps I was lucky.

cheers,
Adriaan

and here is more on the subject:

http://www.dirttricks.com/timing_chain_tensioner.htm

I spoke with a very good KTM mechanic the other day about the hydraulic cam chain tensioner problem that was reported here and asked if he had seen any of these problems on the KTM's with the similar tensioner. His simple answer was NO, nor had he heard of any of these problems.

Click to expand...

KTM mechanic never heard of it ????
He's either telling porkies or he's not real good. Sound like a pretty widespread problem to me.
The Dirt tricks tensioner looks like a good fix but dunno how that would affect warranty.
Not that you should have to use aftermarket solutions to a factory problem anyway.
If this problems been around for a year why the hell would they persist with using the same POS.
Perhaps KTM should get in touch with Dirt tricks.

Well , you know it is a first year model. And as they say you gotta work the bugs out of them. Could be worse, but we have some issues to take care of. Just like the all new 09 CRF 450R. They threw the best motocross bike away and started from scratch. And now everyone is scratching their heads. I really like this new Berg, but believe like many other bikes they are destined to get better.
Now the 2010 model needs to put an end to this problem forever or i'll be looking for the 2011.
Pollo