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rod trouble 2001-3

Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
been doing a few engines recently and my 'crank man' and I have been looking at the troubles we have had.

the big end is nigh-on perfect but the bearings are worn, the little end is worn the gudgeon pins are worn and finally the inside of the rods are worn in a hump bridged way. my conclusion was that the rods are oscillating left to right under the piston and tilting onto one edge. this would account for the little ends only wobbling at the ends and not the middle and in the rods flopping left to right wearing a curved surface inside. the big ends aren't worn out in the normal sense of the word but if doing any kind of lateral test are very worn.

the difference is .001" (one thou) .025mm compared to the middle of the rod.

why does this happen?

I think it's because there is a kind of "kick" in the crank at either 3 or 9 o clock. this 'kick' tilts the crank momentarily and makes the rod make a left-righ action?

to hold the rod tighter under the piston axially would make it worse and force wear onto the bottom end.

what can be done? diagnose it first would be a good start! I bet Dale L would know about this already. we've had several like this over the years but without prercise crank pressing (tons) figures and notes made about which models I'm not sure what can be gleaned from it?

of the present crop of cranks I'm doing it is an FE501 that is the worst and not a 650.

regards

Taffy
 
the bearing cage wears out the ID of the Big end unevenly

most designs don't usually touch the rod ID in the middle ... the 628 big end cage does contact in the middle

if you measure the wear and look at the cage you see its impossible for the rollers to go that far out near the edge

the big end bearing I got from Alpha bearings in the UK did that to a nice new rod in only 50 hours

that's an extreme case though with a very very heavy and rough steel cage and too much radial play of the cage .. twice as much as the oem cage

9337004531_1cee8dd24c_c.jpg


plus the big end pin bends as the crank flexes so the contact loading is higher near the edges

the little end pin also bends quite a lot believe it or not .. that is the main reason for the uneven wear, you need more radial clearance to avoid binding if you go to a more flexible Ti pin.

this is not an attack or a war just some info that might help someone... maybe even Taffy :D
 
see the rollers can never go anywhere near the edge of the rod

but the bore is generally most worn right out near the edge

12231426254_e3e642a881_c.jpg


so the wear near the edge comes from the cage

this is not an attack or a war just some info that might help someone... maybe even Taffy :D
 
This is some great info. I have a question, I have a 2005 fs650 and I'm replacing the piston on it and some other doo hicky's but when I went to look at the bid end bearing the radial play is about 0.0005" (0.0127mm)which is nothing and the axial clearance is 0.025" (0.635mm).

So my question would be how much play should there be in a side to side motion at the little end bushing if I put the crank at TDC and lightly hold the big end bearing in place. I have never checked this on any of my rebuilt cranks but I feel like what you guys are talking about is happening to my crank.

This conrod has been in there for 150hrs, the motor did'nt make any metal. the only reason I took it apart was to replace the worn out piston & rings.
 
I go for .018" which is .45mm.

more important is for the engineer to measure the width of the flywheels beforehand and calculate it all.

remember that the con rods are in a recess in each flywheel so you can't measure this with a feeler guage!

regards

Taffy
 
Lineaweaver recommended 0.8mm for the 644

I found 0.5mm to be too tight on the 628

I saw less binding wear on the sides of the rod with 0.7-0.8mm

but then it becomes difficult to get enough axial play of the main bearings

**edit** this is only what I have found to work in my bike, it is not an attack or a war just some useful info that might help someone ******edit*****
 
My crank end float is .55mm and axial clearance at the big end is .635mm. Taffy i'll try to get some pictures but I was able to get my feeler gause between the conrod and the flywheels. Maybe I was doing it wrong but I'll double check
 
helithumper said:
My crank end float is .55mm and axial clearance at the big end is .635mm. Taffy i'll try to get some pictures but I was able to get my feeler gause between the conrod and the flywheels. Maybe I was doing it wrong but I'll double check

that sounds good, it is the 80mm crank you're using right?

it true you can measure rod axial play on the 80mm cranks easily with a feeler gauge

I fink taffy is on about the older ones
 
so because someone is very upset that I have posted different specs to him

I would like to apologize unreservedly for doing so

and just to reinforce that the specs I shared here are only what i found to work in my bike not any number set in stone to be considered the oracle

Sorry :oops: :oops:
 
helithumper said:
This is some great info. I have a question, I have a 2005 fs650 and I'm replacing the piston on it and some other doo hicky's but when I went to look at the bid end bearing the radial play is about 0.0005" (0.0127mm)which is nothing and the axial clearance is 0.025" (0.635mm).

So my question would be how much play should there be in a side to side motion at the little end bushing if I put the crank at TDC and lightly hold the big end bearing in place.

I have never checked this on any of my rebuilt cranks but I feel like what you guys are talking about is happening to my crank.

This conrod has been in there for 150hrs, the motor did'nt make any metal. the only reason I took it apart was to replace the worn out piston & rings.

I measured my brand new 80mm crank like this today

the rocking movement side to side as you describe is about 1.5mm at the little end of the rod

factory has set the axial play of the big end at 0.53mm, i will be opening it up to 0.7mm
 

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