Should I remove the shock and measure it ?
I've just removed the shock and measured the length it's currently 233 mm
Hope this helps ??
I've just removed the shock and measured the length it's currently 233 mm
Hope this helps ??
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
johny said:
that poor bloody spring started life as 252mm long you fat git! 8O 8O
that is crushed by 19mm.
at this point DaleO and I disagree with each other. I think that the race sag is important and then the measured length of the spring. so 106mm and the spring is 233.
mate you need a heavier spring whichever way you look at it. this is like you're scratching your fingers down the blackboard to me :evil: :evil:
you almost need the spring I have here: the 84 or certainly a 80.
I'm probably being previous but over the next coupla weeks I'm seeing if my newly reworked rear shock will support the bike better or whether the spring needs upping again from the 84. so it might become available in a fortnight.
the problem with the standing sag is that it can vary so much just with a push or a prod.
regards
Taffy
I thought i knew about bikes but really don't lol now that measurement is set on the shock I've not taken the spring off taffy, whats confusing me is when i tried the 76 rear spring with the 46 springs in the front the bike felt harsh and that feeling my friend had when he did the same??????????? am i just a dumb *** 
johny said:
Now that you have it off, unwind the pre load collar and measure the un pre loaded spring length, the spring may have taken a good set.
Also, does it look as though the spring coils have been hitting each other?
Ive just taken, the spring off not a good idea with a poorly shoulder, but this handling issue has gotten me crazy and I'm determined to find a solution, any how the length of the spring is 250mm and there's no signs of any wear between the coils just a little against the edge where it must of been rubbing against the exhaust
now its off for an x ray to see if the bone settle and surgery wont be required
once again thanks to all that have contributed to this post, your suggestion will be invaluable
johny
now its off for an x ray to see if the bone settle and surgery wont be required
once again thanks to all that have contributed to this post, your suggestion will be invaluable
johny
johny said:Ive just taken, the spring off not a good idea with a poorly shoulder, but this handling issue has gotten me crazy and I'm determined to find a solution, any how the length of the spring is 250mm and there's no signs of any wear between the coils just a little against the edge where it must of been rubbing against the exhaust
now its off for an x ray to see if the bone settle and surgery wont be required
once again thanks to all that have contributed to this post, your suggestion will be invaluable
johny
So you have a spring 250mm in length and 233mm on the shock.
Thats 17mm of preload and it is too much.
That says you are having to compress the spring too far to get the correct sag numbers for your bike.
In other words you need the next stiffer spring up, which will allow you to have less preload for your weight.
A stiffer spring will not mean a stiffer ride if the preload is set correctly and the spring is the correct size for your weight.
By compressing your current spring so much you are seriously affecting ride quality, even though you have the correct sag numbers.
Thats 17mm of preload and it is too much.
That says you are having to compress the spring too far to get the correct sag numbers for your bike.
In other words you need the next stiffer spring up, which will allow you to have less preload for your weight.
A stiffer spring will not mean a stiffer ride if the preload is set correctly and the spring is the correct size for your weight.
By compressing your current spring so much you are seriously affecting ride quality, even though you have the correct sag numbers.
lets just say i can ride a bike but clearly, I've really know idea about how to get it set up right so just imagine your talking to a child, who needs things explaining in layman's terms
thanks again
thanks again
I was told by Terry Hay (Race Tech Australia) that 10mm is the absolute maximum.
7-8 mm is ideal.
On the WP PDS 1 turn of the preload collar equates to 1.75mm of tension, so from a fully relaxed spring between 4-5 turns of prelaod is ideal.
This was for a straight rate spring.
7-8 mm is ideal.
On the WP PDS 1 turn of the preload collar equates to 1.75mm of tension, so from a fully relaxed spring between 4-5 turns of prelaod is ideal.
This was for a straight rate spring.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
all this was in the 'forks for enduro' thread Johny. If you go to a hard spring but leave it unwound you get a softer ride at the beginning and a harder ride at the end. a spring is rarely if ever harsh - think about it? it's the damping that is harsh. a spring can't just 'stop'.
the thing is, you talk to people as though there are good and bad guys. everyone's trying to help you it's just that nobody knows what you perceive?
I would have thought 3-8mm was the pre-load area. and just to give you more free info which has been learnt through tough experience: you can be at 10mm on one spring, buy the next one and still be at 10mm, buy the next one and be at 9mm. you have to have a concept of how much difference each spring makes.
only one man as I'm aware, on this web site has gone up through every friggin spring paying for it and can say that! now where are the phuqin experts! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
you really don't know what the next springnis going to do unless you have some experience - or the above statement.
regards
Taffy
the thing is, you talk to people as though there are good and bad guys. everyone's trying to help you it's just that nobody knows what you perceive?
I would have thought 3-8mm was the pre-load area. and just to give you more free info which has been learnt through tough experience: you can be at 10mm on one spring, buy the next one and still be at 10mm, buy the next one and be at 9mm. you have to have a concept of how much difference each spring makes.
only one man as I'm aware, on this web site has gone up through every friggin spring paying for it and can say that! now where are the phuqin experts! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
you really don't know what the next springnis going to do unless you have some experience - or the above statement.
regards
Taffy
good and bad guys ??? your all good to me, I've honestly never heard of the preload your talking about on the shock, so after I've fitted the 76 spring and set the static sag at 35mm then the race sag at 105mm i should measure the spring length on the shock again, just to see if its below 10mm??
Im going to get this bike sprung properly with the help of people on this site then see if i need a re valve too
thanks again
Im going to get this bike sprung properly with the help of people on this site then see if i need a re valve too
thanks again
I'm certainly no expert but I have spent alot of time working on my suspension, and unfortunately too much money.
I have 4 shock springs for my KTM 300 and 3 sets of fork springs, so I've learnt the hard way.
Firstly try and borrow a 76 spring or next spring up from someone just to test it, so as not to waste $?
This is how I do it:
Fit the spring on the shock then wind on 3-4 turns of preload.
Set the rider sag
Then measure the static sag.
When rider sag and preload are correct, the static sag will tell you if you have the correct spring rate for your weight.
Move the preload collar up and down between, say, 3-10mm and measure all the sag number and preload mm's.
After that if you have too much static sag but the preload and rider sag are correct it means the spring is too heavy for your weight. The spring is not compressed enough, even though the preload setting is about right.
Or
If you dont have enough static sag, then the spring is too soft, you will have had to screw on too much preload to get the desired sag.
I dont know if this is how the experts do it, but as i said, I taught myself the hard way.
I have 4 shock springs for my KTM 300 and 3 sets of fork springs, so I've learnt the hard way.
Firstly try and borrow a 76 spring or next spring up from someone just to test it, so as not to waste $?
This is how I do it:
Fit the spring on the shock then wind on 3-4 turns of preload.
Set the rider sag
Then measure the static sag.
When rider sag and preload are correct, the static sag will tell you if you have the correct spring rate for your weight.
Move the preload collar up and down between, say, 3-10mm and measure all the sag number and preload mm's.
After that if you have too much static sag but the preload and rider sag are correct it means the spring is too heavy for your weight. The spring is not compressed enough, even though the preload setting is about right.
Or
If you dont have enough static sag, then the spring is too soft, you will have had to screw on too much preload to get the desired sag.
I dont know if this is how the experts do it, but as i said, I taught myself the hard way.
I will try that today, if my shoulder's up to it, I've begun to realise that, i know very little about suspension, but I've just had the worst nights sleep, in pain with my broken shoulder , that i really don't want an injury like this again, and I'm determined to eliminate this handling issue, and if i can manage to fit the new spring today and take some measurements i will and will post what i have on here
, that i really don't want an injury like this again, and I'm determined to eliminate this handling issue, and if i can manage to fit the new spring today and take some measurements i will and will post what i have on here johny said:I will try that today, if my shoulder's up to it, I've begun to realise that, i know very little about suspension, but I've just had the worst nights sleep, in pain with my broken shoulder
That's what your friends are for! Get one of them to come over and help! And get a bottle of tablets to help with your comfort level, no sense in suffering through till it heals.
The_Force said:
I love to hear stuff like this. My suspension is with Matt from FCR now. I can't wait.
johny said:Consistent good advice as usual dale, and yes I've taking pain killers
Johny,
Just wondering if you managed to sort out the front end yet?
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