FE 450, 2005, Force Edition

Cool!

Interested in the answer to these questions too.

Maybe some hints in this thread I remember reading a while ago and not fully understanding? : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6499&start=30

Or here?: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12145

the 650 liner cannot be used on the 450 even after machining.

the rod kit with a 40mm big end pin is no good to anyone. I think even the big KTMs run a 38mm pin maximum.

the piston is just not usable. a 650 piston is dished and a 450 piston is domed.

the gudgeon (wrist) pin, circlips and rings are all usable though.

Taffy

Hi M i did think of something after all :wink:



i ground a champher on the WP shaft to make it easier to assemble

FWIW the water seal from a 2007 ktm65 is a nice blue silicone one 46035056100 and it fits well



regarding the 650 liner im curious why our esteemed site vendor writes you cant use one in a 450 even after its been machined :?

the WP shaft is actually very soft.. could chamfer it with a file, ive used all kinds of tricks to install the seal and cover over the shaft and didn't have any problems for ages .. but once it went wrong, nicked the seal and that as enough for me to want to change something.

nice pictures of the pistons, thanks for putting those up pictures of all kinds of thinks are what make a site interesting

in 2t engines we often raise the exhaust port sometimes by 5mm or more, the rings pass over the exhaust port so you would think this would be quite a nasty situation for flaking

all you need to do is nicely chamfer and polish a lead in on the new edge and they last for a very long time

in the 4t engine you don't even have any holes in the bore so the situation is much better. you shouldn't in theory need a lead in or chamfer unless the piston protrudes below the liner

the problem is that you can damage the coating during "machining" need to keep the temp low and cut from the nikasil side first to maintain its integrity and make sure that the cutting edge of the grinder or the porting burr is never trying to lift the plating off.

if you used a low speed hand held die grinder or dremel and a cutoff disc and kept dunking the liner in a bucket of water it should be fine. if you gave it to someone with a mill or an EDM they would probably wreak it by going too fast from the alloy side, time and patience are needed. when its the right overall shape with the cutout you would then machine the outside of the lower section and the grooves for the o rings

the thing you would need to check thoroughly is the bore measurement when the liner is installed in the cases.. top vs bottom and out of round since these are influenced by the fit in the cases and the shape of the cases themselves. also make sure the liner protrudes a little from the cases or is flush with the cases at the top where the head gasket goes .

if there is flaking at the end of the job or its not the right shape at some point then just hang it on the wall as a keeper for stories.

this is what I mean about the grinder cutting direction its called "climb milling"

you want it to do this



if you do it the other way you will rip the nicasill off



another pic showing the difference

Hi

To install the clutch cover, just use a bit of heat shrink tubing, and it will make a perfect tool.

Just put the tubing in the shaft and use one heat gun to shrink it a bit.

Here is a pict
[attachment=0:aqtgoril]Sleeve.jpg[/attachment:aqtgoril]

:cheers:
ZAGA

zaga said:

Hi

To install the clutch cover, just use a bit of heat shrink tubing, and it will make a perfect tool.

Just put the tubing in the shaft and use one heat gun to shrink it a bit.

Here is a pict
[attachment=0:1g59rvpk]Sleeve.jpg[/attachment:1g59rvpk]

:cheers:
ZAGA

Click to expand...

I like this idea ... Always used electricians tape but it was a b#}*+ to get to stay on with one wrap.

nice idea Zaga I have used that method it is very good, sometimes a bit hard to remove the heat shrink

champhering the step on the shaft however only takes 10 min with a file and can be done by just about anyone even with the shaft still in the bike, the cover goes on easier as well not just less damage but physically easier

Hi

There are 2 kinds of those tubing's, ones that have resin inside and others that don't. So need to pay attention, or you will have the tubing glued to the shaft

Also you only heat the end of it, and there is one that is the exact size of the shaft, and it will be very easy to take it out, and you can also put some oil inside and obviously outside.

Once you've done it it's a tool you can use every time.

:cheers:
ZAGA

very intersting topic here, I like your approach to this restoration, the force edition deserves reasonable amount of dedication. May Dingac lead your hands to successful finale.
I would like to know, if somebody has the empirical info, if a 550 can be transformed into 501 only by changing the piston+sleeve. My point is that this would make a far more better 501 compared to pre 2003 501 models. I have the chance to buy a 550 engine with worn piston and sleeve relatively cheap. Does anybody know what are the lenghts of sleeves 501 v. 550?

edelweiss said:

very intersting topic here, I like your approach to this restoration, the force edition deserves reasonable amount of dedication. May Dingac lead your hands to successful finale.
I would like to know, if somebody has the empirical info, if a 550 can be transformed into 501 only by changing the piston+sleeve. My point is that this would make a far more better 501 compared to pre 2003 501 models. I have the chance to buy a 550 engine with worn piston and sleeve relatively cheap. Does anybody know what are the lenghts of sleeves 501 v. 550?

Click to expand...

they are the same length. be careful which 501 piston you get as the valve centres changed 2001-2003 and then to 2004-2008. nothing will contact in normal day-to-day but the edge of a valve pocket in a piston will touch a valve if one tooth out on the cam timing.

regards

Taffy

Taffy said:

edelweiss said:

very intersting topic here, I like your approach to this restoration, the force edition deserves reasonable amount of dedication. May Dingac lead your hands to successful finale.
I would like to know, if somebody has the empirical info, if a 550 can be transformed into 501 only by changing the piston+sleeve. My point is that this would make a far more better 501 compared to pre 2003 501 models. I have the chance to buy a 550 engine with worn piston and sleeve relatively cheap. Does anybody know what are the lenghts of sleeves 501 v. 550?

Click to expand...

they are the same length. be careful which 501 piston you get as the valve centres changed 2001-2003 and then to 2004-2008. nothing will contact in normal day-to-day but the edge of a valve pocket in a piston will touch a valve if one tooth out on the cam timing.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

plasticine before assembly may say how we are. I freshly know it works vice versa, I know one concrete 501 2003 running ok with piston and sleeve from 550 even without thicker head gasket, which is interesting, because the stroke of 501 is 0,7mm longer).