Definitive E-Start solution for 01-03's

husabutt · Jun 9, 2005

Well not exactly. This e-start question comes up time and time again and will not go away. It is like a plague. A zit that can't be popped (sick). Currently our friend Mr. Lefrogg is pulling his hair out. Next week it will be someone else. The path of least resistance is to blame the battery, then the starter, then the decompression device and on and on and on. The silence from Husaberg on this issue is deafening. There is no definitive fix and no official statement from Husaberg that a problem even exists. Other than its a restarter stupid. We know that the 04-05 models e-start perfectly hot or cold and that it can be done.

With the above said is it too much to ask for Husaberg to put together a kit to turn the restarter into a starter. I have a very strong suspicion that certain 05 parts will make the 01-03's e-start like a 04-05. Probably the 05 cam, autodecompression device and a few other parts will do it. Put these parts in a kit and sell them. That way every time the e-start thing rears its ugly head all we have to do is post the part number for the kit and get on with more important matters like guessing what the heck Taffy is doing to his bike now

LeFrog · Jun 9, 2005

Well, for a start

is it worth it to just upgrade the starter to the latest? Aren't they backward compatible? It seems that all you need is a different bracket.

It also seems to me that if your electrical (battery included of course) is in top notch shape, your carb is clean, your valves adjusted properly, that you have a spark... then it should (re)start on the button.

And that the margin of error is a lot narrower on the 01s than on the recent bike.

However, it seems that learning to kick start it is necessary. You need to learn the trick until you reach (re)start nirvana.

It's the Husaberg path to enlightenment.

husabutt · Jun 9, 2005

I think before anyone goes racing Husaberg/BMG needs to hire Dale on a contract basis, sort it, package it and sell it. Then if it doesn't work we know who to blame and where he lives :lol:

Taffy · Jun 9, 2005

well come on, here we go again! have i got to announce that i want to get my bike starting on the button and do it all again? what's wrong with people?

if i trail rode my bike and i had a 2000-2003 (or '04 even) i would want to sort this out.

let's look at the problem (even though i now personally don't give a monkeys cuss) they have uprated the battery, so have we. they have uprated the starter motor but we haven't. what about the sprague bearing and the housing it sits in? there are two models of sprague something or other. what about gear teeth ratios etc?

what about the wires that carry the current?

i always blamed the synthetic oil but now that isn't the problem is it?

we don't need dale to sort this out, we can do it ourselves if someone cares to do the work!

i think the answer is going to be fairly simple!

we don't have a big dealer on the site who has two or three mechanics at his workshop that could say that they have tried all this. that's a shame.

regards

Taffy

husabutt · Jun 9, 2005

Taffy:
I am just as tired of hearing about this as you are and it would be easy for me to say I don't give a rats arse also, however if you are not a part of the solution you are part of the problem.

Taffy · Jun 9, 2005

who started this thread husabutt....

so get on with it....

it's funny i thought i just offered some words of wisdom on the subject... correct me if i'm wrong.

regards

Taffy

husabutt · Jun 9, 2005

Taff:
I've done and written plenty on the subject and I will be doing more. I will be installing a 05 cam, cam sprocket, autodecompression device and timing chain in my 01 470fx. You can bet that I will be shouting my findings here at the top of my lungs. I don't mind being the guinea pig at all. Actually its sort of fun. It would just be a whole lot easier if the factory engineers or equivalent got it all sorted for us and all we had to do is purchase the kit. Unfortunately I do know my limitations :cry:

LINEAWEAVER · Jun 9, 2005

Friends,
For a variety of reasons hard starting is primarily the result of the SEM ignition system. The closer to perfect the fuel delivery the better, however, the main culprit is indeed the ignition.

Kokusan = "E" Start.

It had been my suggestion for many years to upgrade said system.

Kind Regards,
Dale

PS
Review my photo gallery and you shall see I invested a lot of time sorting the problem. I do have a Kokusan upgrade, however, even with quantity dealer pricing said kit remains cost prohibitive.

husabutt · Jun 9, 2005

Dale with all due respect:

What significant role would a different ignition play if the bikes will barely even turn over one revolution without hitting a brick wall of compression. It seems that the batteries are being drained prematurely as they struggle to spin the engine against the compression.

On my 05 I can use the e-starter as much as I please and it will not run the battery down and spins the motor quite freely.

LINEAWEAVER · Jun 9, 2005

husabutt said:
Dale with all due respect:

What significant role would a different ignition play if the bikes will barely even turn over one revolution without hitting a brick wall of compression. It seems that the batteries are being drained prematurely as they struggle to spin the engine against the compression.

On my 05 I can use the e-starter as much as I please and it will not run the battery down and spins the motor quite freely.

(1)The Kokusan ignition provides increased spark energy with a
consequent longer spark duration. Such insures a flame front is
established as opposed to misfire and / or plug wetting.

(2) The Kokusan ignition has a greater range of advance therefore
cranking ignition timing can be ******** considerably from that of the
SEM. Such reduces the starter load with a consequent increase in
cranking rpm complimented with lower starter draw.
(ie the ignition system is no longer attempting to run the engine backward against the starter motor)

(3) The trigger rpm threshold is lower and more consistent then that of
the SEM therefore a timing signal can be generated at a much lower
rpm.

The list goes on though the above mentioned highlight the primary shortcomings of the SEM.

Early Suzuki DR 350 engines suffered the same issue.

Hope this Helps.

Best Regards,
Dale

PS
It is not the only problem, simply the most prevalent.
Many hours with an O-Scope and SEM ignition under dynamic loading exposed several demons.

risky1 · Jun 9, 2005

I'll have to say is "damn that sucks" then this means there is not much hope unless you drop 6-8 g's on a new bike.

LeFrog · Jun 9, 2005

Well I have seen my bike start cold and also e-start when warm so there is hope.

Now, Dale, how much is the Kokusan? What is the part number? Is it P/N 59039006000? Price around $46 on KT?

Would upgrading the starter make sense? How about upgrading the carb to a Keihin 41?

LINEAWEAVER · Jun 9, 2005

risky1 said:
I'll have to say is "darn that sucks" then this means there is not much hope unless you drop 6-8 g's on a new bike.

Do not give up!
Their are alternatives that have been tried and proven.
(1) 24 volt starting.
(2) Near perfect low speed state of tune with minimum idle speed.
(ie reduced cranking pressure as a result of a closed throttle will allow for an increase in cranking speed)
(3) Kokusan retrofit.

Sincerely,
Dale

LeFrog · Jun 9, 2005

24v starting? How do you do that? Two batteries in series with a 24v start? Speak

LINEAWEAVER · Jun 9, 2005

LeFrog said:
Well I have seen my bike start cold and also e-start when warm so there is hope.

Now, Dale, how much is the Kokusan? What is the part number?

Would upgrading the starter make sense? How about upgrading the carb to a Keihin 41?

Near perfect low speed fuel delivery helps a great deal.
When the idle mixture is off you are forced to run the idle stop screw in excessively to maintain an acceptable idle speed. Such allows for good cylinder filling during cranking and consequently loads the starter.

The cost to outfit a Kokusan ignition is in $1,000.00 range.

Best Regards,
Dale

PS
When you use either a hot start or fuel enrichment circuit you are again increasing the crank fill and loading the starter.

LINEAWEAVER · Jun 9, 2005

LeFrog said:
24v starting? How do you do that? Two batteries in series with a 24v start? Speak

It has been done and indeed started the motorcycle. A forum member did so as has another equipped his early Husaberg with a Kokusan ignition.

Try a UHE search as I do not recall who did what.

Dale

LeFrog · Jun 9, 2005

Scully did indeed do that but it seems there are a few issues.

I don't think this is necessarily such a good idea.

fryguy · Jun 9, 2005

gentleducks

buying parts is buying hope, and some times the credit card annot always get you what you want.

In my experience state of tune as Taffy and Dale have indicated is the easiest route to go.

Now I am a big lad, so it will be easy for most to say that I simply have the leg to start my beasts, but " the little ones " have kick started my bikes as well in two kicks or less.

So my advice is this. If you are unable to verify the state of the decomp mechanism on the cam yourself, send it to Dale. Not only will he install the parts, but make sure that they are doing as they are supposed to. As well, get him to make sure the carb is set up proper.

It'll will the best money spent and would make a damn good mastercard advertisement.

Please, please, please listen, we don't need taffy going off on us again, hey oh tossed one!!!

eh huh

fry

schwim · Jun 9, 2005

scully

Scully was a dynamo when it came to getting his bike to start. 18 & 24 volt starting systems(which he still has pics of in his gallery), welding the docomp cam lobe, upgrading to the '04 starter, etc. There's quite a few posts from him concerning the starting probs and how/if he solved them.

Alas, he's another guy who seems to have moved on to greener pastures, but some of his posts in the forum are incredibly valuable indeed.

thanks,
json

dsducati · Jun 9, 2005

Must say that other than having my 03 501 jetting dialed in to an MX muffler I installed, it is STOCK and has always started on the E Button hot or cold. Starting to feel guilty about this, what with everyone else having problems. Only mentioning this for a bit of encouragement to the unfortunate ones wondering if it will ever work.
dan

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Definitive E-Start solution for 01-03's

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