Definitive E-Start solution for 01-03's

my 02 has always started off the button hot or cold. but alas it sounds as if my starter clutch is going....

it has also always started well with the kick. possibly it is my magnificent tuning abilities.... NOT.

Mine starts right up

1. Run a direct ground from battery to engine.

2. Adjust valves correctly

3. Have a good battery and keep it charged with a tender.

4. Use the appropriate oil weight for the temperature.

5. Replace decomperessor device if worn.

6. Replace sprag clutch if starter won't stay engaged.

Do them in that order until it starting bliss is achieved.

dsducati said:

Must say that other than having my 03 501 jetting dialed in to an MX muffler I installed, it is STOCK and has always started on the E Button hot or cold. Starting to feel guilty about this, what with everyone else having problems. Only mentioning this for a bit of encouragement to the unfortunate ones wondering if it will ever work.
dan

Click to expand...

You have an 03 but I have seen Splat (same year as you) with the same problems and his son had to give him a tow. Also Splat does not have a good left leg. But I do remember his bike estarting cold a couple times.

Thanks for the good advice, Fry Guy. I'll open a Molson for you tabarnak.

you boys were busy overnight!

for '03 they had a hidden away solenoid and an earth wire from the negative terminal to the bolt on the back of the starter motor. i believe that that's the only relevant change that year.

same SEM, same dell orto.

yet by '04 they start really well! i know that dale's 2nd point is the most valid for me. the ignition is over advanced and locks the engine up!

also having the slide too high, which is again a point by dale! we've all tried to kickstart with a wiff of throttle and had a huge kickback.

i have been running a DMS and a DMT needle. the S and the T denote the straight width. i've just gone back to an R which has richened the idle.

right now i've got a failed opening follower so i'll clear that up for sunday. but it may or may not be the reason it ran like a two-legged camel last sunday.

get a needle with an S straight next time you're at sudco it makes a difference to the restart.

dale has often talked of the kokusan ignition but it is cost prohibitive to most. economies of scale again and of course the bikes now belong to the poorer members of the community now that they are over 24 months old. chances of folk shelling out a grand for one now are slim....

be nice to hear how husabutt gets on with the '05 decomp. that only leaves him with the SEM ignition and the smaller starter motor. good luck with that fella!

regards

Taffy

I do recall Splat having problems. I did have a starter clutch problem when cold with Red Line oil. Motor sure ran quiet and shifted good though. Would E Start ok hot with Red Line. Not sure how long you can slip those sprauge clutches before they go south. I stopped using the Red Line right away and have seen no lasting effects. Also, if it were my bike I think I would start off with basics. 1. Did I ever crank the thing over 10-15 seconds at a pop? Starter motors are high output with no cooling system and in short order will melt the solder out of the armature and/or develop shorts. Did I ever continue to crank the motor when battery voltage had dropped. The engines power requirements to turn it are constant. Since Power = Current X Volts if the volts fall low, the amps go up causing all the above starter problems. 2. Is the engine turning harder due to valves out of adjustment not allowing the decompressor to work, or the decompressor lobe being worn. Maybe the low speed jetting is off and the slide is way open so it will idle increasing the load. 3. Once engine is known to be ok, get the battery specs and load test it. 4. With fully functional battery, check current draw of starter and compare to specs. While checking starter draw, monitor battery voltage. Shouldn't go below 10 Volts while cranking. If volts are dropping low at battery and current is high, starter is suspect. If volts are ok at battery and current is ok yet cranking is slow, check for voltage drop at all connections. For example place a voltmeter terminal on the + battery terminal and another on the positive cable end. Voltmeter should remain at zero when cranking. If connection has a problem, voltmeter will read 1 to 2 volts. Check selenoid connections, drop across selenoid contacts, ground connection etc. Have seen bikes with small .5 volt drops at numerous connections so battery was holding 10.5 amps, yet starter was only seeing 8. Cables can be suspect as well. These are only basics but as they say with the proper tools and understanding you should be able to attack any model.
dan

husabutt said:

Taffy said:

right be nice to hear how husabutt gets on with the '05 decomp. that only leaves him with the SEM ignition and the smaller starter motor. good luck with that fella!

Click to expand...

04 550/650 starter is in place

Click to expand...

Yup but it does not seem to be too encouraging... You wrote you could not restart the bike with the new starter?

It is encouraging. With the stock autodecompresion device and a YTZ battery the motor would not even turn over one revolution. With the 04 550 starter and the carb off it spun like hell, but

"as soon as I bolted the carb up it would only turn the motor over a few times before it would drain the battery".

I wish someone with a 2002 would put this starter on and tell us how it worked for them.

Click to expand...

Regarding my earlier post:
The engine is attempting to turn backward as a result of the SEM advance curve. No carb = no fuel = no combustion consequently no starter motor opposition.

Best Regards,
Dale

husabutt said:

Dale:

At the time of the test I had no spark. Subsequently I replaced the stator with a new one.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately all I can say is that in addition to my own testing it is indeed the common denominator regarding the majority of 04 bikes which start readily and 03 bikes which do not".

Best of luck with your quest and please do keep us up to speed.

Sincerely,
Dale

I do have a last bit of documented information you may find useful:

Back to back testing of a 2002 Husaberg 400 with SEM ignition which would not start on the button and a 2002 520 KTM which would.

Both bikes shared a common starter with a cranking rpm of 400, cranking voltage of 10.0 and cranking amperage of 60.

The difference:
Carburetor and Ignition.

Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Dale

husabutt said:

Dale:

Trust that I have merely reported my findings in addition to a (somewhat) educated guess. I am not purposely trying to be a contrarian (at least this time ).

Click to expand...

Believe me, no offense has been taken.

Dale, thanks for the 60 AMP figure. Sure that will help many since those figures aren't always as easy to get as battery CCA figures. Am not doubting you that all else can be well and bike still not start due to ignition overadvancing and stopping the starter, but am wondering what in the ignition is causing this. I can only surmise the load sensing portion that measures the crank decelleration rates (which changes with throttle openings) and changes the timing to suit the condition has gone whacky? If so, one would have spark and assume all is well only to have the timing all over the place. The Japs throttle position sensor seems like a much better approach. Does SEM make an ignition that would fit the newer bikes without all the technical load sensing wizardry? The old simple SEMs never gave near this much trouble on my Huskys.

dsducati said:

Dale, thanks for the 60 AMP figure. Sure that will help many since those figures aren't always as easy to get as battery CCA figures. Am not doubting you that all else can be well and bike still not start due to ignition overadvancing and stopping the starter, but am wondering what in the ignition is causing this. I can only surmise the load sensing portion that measures the crank decelleration rates (which changes with throttle openings) and changes the timing to suit the condition has gone whacky? If so, one would have spark and assume all is well only to have the timing all over the place. The Japs throttle position sensor seems like a much better approach. Does SEM make an ignition that would fit the newer bikes without all the technical load sensing wizardry? The old simple SEMs never gave near this much trouble on my Huskys.

Click to expand...

Hi Dan,
Truth of the matter is and despite "Digital Force" claims the Husaberg SEM ignition has no load sensing capabilities. Said ignition has a limited range of advance which forces one to start the bike with an initial timing of some 15 degrees. The later SEM units simply had two advance curves selectable via a switch.

Best Regards,
Dale

Thanks for clearing that up. How much does the low position ****** the timing? Particularly at cranking speeds. Suspect your going to say something like only a gnats *** worth.
Dan

dsducati said:

Thanks for clearing that up. How much does the low position ****** the timing? Particularly at cranking speeds. Suspect your going to say something like only a gnats *** worth.
Dan

Click to expand...

The advance curves are identical up to 2300 rpm.

Here is what I intend to do this week end:

1-Put brand new battery in
2-Verify all wiring
3-Check I have spark and try new spark plug
4-Verify the motor is grounded to the battery
5-Clean and check the carb jetting

Is #4 hard to do? Is there a post or a photo showing how this is done?

I will also conduct the tests from the hard start guide, in case the stator is also problematic (which is possible, since it does not recharge the battery).

Hmm what else?

Grounding the battery to the motor is as simple as taking a heavy gauge wire and taking it from the neg terminal to one of the bolts that hold the starter bracket in place.

I am doing many things this week end as well. some to ensure the return of continued starting bliss and some just because I am there. Cleaned and rejet/rebuild carb, new battery, new plug (already installed new stator/flywheel) new starter sprauge clutch, inspect main clutch for wear, inspect/clean water pump and cooling system, (thanks fryguy for the lead on the radiator), inspect rocker end play and related bearings, cam and cam chain and chain tensioner, decomp device, valve clearance, and some misc other things. I hope this returns mine to the state is was a few rides ago