09 Forks Strip !

cimwill,
just curious how would you compare a bleed hole in the piston with the bleed shims (either MV or REB side)..Also a picture of this drilled piston would be nice?
Thank you!

You might find some interesting info re suspension fluids here:

http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm

Steve

ktmlew said:

Interesting rebound stack? Just proves there is more than one way to skin a cat...some of us don't have to resort to radical methods to find a good set-up. 8) The small cartridge WP forks don't NEED that much work... :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

I would be happy to read the details about this idea-the REB stack noted here. Lew. please be kind Thank you!

I just had a great day riding Cimwill's stacks. I really like the way it changes the forks.
I am running it the same as Cimwill except I have 4.8 springs for now, I am going to try my 4.6's after running the 4.8's for a while.

The fork rides much higher in the stroke than stock yet does not deflect of logs and roots.
The confidence is really good. On a grass track section I was able to lay it down and really crank without the feeling of the front starting to push.
Turns at the bottom of a downhill are much better, I feel I can get back on the power earlier.
This is not a dawdlers stack however, it likes to be ridden aggressively and rewards you if you do.
I know there is talk of lowering the shock or running a lot of sag. I am running 105 and find it works very well. I may try a spacer later but for now I am very happy.
I still have more testing to do along with clicker tweaking.

One funny note. With the stock stacks when I rolled my bike into my garage I could feel the transition from my driveway to the garage floor. With the new stack, it just flows right over it...... Kind of neat.

Thanks for sharing Chris.

BTW, does someone have a picture of the REB piston with tne bleed hole?

Here is what I did. This was the easiest place to drill for me..... Not real scientific.

thats the best spot, close as possible to the centre of the shims.

should free up initial movements both directions

very helpful pictures.Thank you!

Hi I am new to this site.

Thanks for a very informative thread.

I have an 2010 450fe that is to be revalved in a couple of days. I like the valving, spring, shock and overall bike set up that Chris has so time consumingly set up.

I am an 81kg (95 with gear) average clubman. I ride in a lot of rocky areas with a lot of tree roots so I like my bikes to be plush with as little deflection as possible. That said I also do the odd motocross and some high speed trail work from time to time so I also like the bike to ride high in its stroke as well. - Sounds like I want everything!!

All of Chris's valving and spring rates look great to me however with light of my average ability I feel that the only difference I may need would be in the compression stack which looks a bit harsh for me.

I had a few thoughs on the compression for my ability


Single stage - 8 x 24 .1 with the same stack

Light stack
Single stage - 5 x 24.1 with the same stack

Dual stage - 10 x 24.1 with a 12.1 or 12.05 crossover between the 4th or 5th or 5th and 6th

Any thoughts on this would be great

Mid valve
My understanding is that the mid valving shimming acts as extra compression damping with the initial float opening on low speed action allowing the adjustment needle in the compression to flow oil. As the rod speed and oil flow picks up the mid shims begin to open as does the shims in the comp stack.

So the compression is controlled by two valving stacks which makes it hard to get the valving set up right.

Years ago I used to turn the mid valve into a check valve so that all the oil displaced by the rod in the cartridge could be controlled by the compression stack. It used to give a plusher feel to the fork. It also made it easier to revalve as I could tip the bike over and just remove the compression valve for revalving.

I have not valved a fork for years and don’t know if thoughts are different now regarding the mid valving and its role in the fork.

Any thoughts on this would be great as well


I am also getting the spacer put into the shock as I have had this mod before and liked the flat anti rocking feel of the bike. As these shocks are position sensitive do I need to revalve them?


Sorry for all the questions but anyones help before the revalve would be appreciated.

Regards
Slopie

Well

I had the first ride on Chris's valving except for the compression where I had 8 instead of 10 base shims.

The front end grip is great, the bike sits flatter. It can be railed around a rut with out thinking about the front tucking or pushing. As mentioned earlier in this thread you can pick a really tight line and just trust the front will stick. The rear did feel abit harsh though. I did mess with the clickers both front and back.

In the harsh loose rock I found the overall valving to be too stiff for me. I have already revalved the compression stack and now only have 4 base shims along with the same stack. I left the mid and rebound as they seem spot on.

Another thought I may even go back to the original springs if I know the riding will be overly rocky

Regards
Slopie

I am actually working with different spring combos, however it is hard to believe someone could receive the recommended sag numbers with softer springs...I am 230lbs geared, and found that .50 in front with some 2-3 turns on preload adj. would give 25 static and around 50 rider sag....same for the shock-84 with 10mm preload gives 30/123mm sags.......I've red is some place that those new HSG are very Pitch sensitive-very true!....They react quite visible on each 1-2 clicks and each small preload change....Even though I am tall, I might try to experiment with shortened by 1.5mm shock-need a bit more input in this area.....became too tired of working with 2 sets of forks, setup after setup..

suhoi27 said:

.Even though I am tall, I might try to experiment with shortened by 1.5mm shock-need a bit more input in this area....

Click to expand...

I wish there was a quick and easy way to try this.....

You WERE there? what did you come back to the OEM (if I got you right?) and advice,pros and cons....
I actually like to work on the shock more that on the fork,which as per Murphy's Laws is the one in need of tweaking

suhoi27 said:

You WERE there? what did you come back to the OEM (if I got you right?) and advice,pros and cons....
I actually like to work on the shock more that on the fork,which as per Murphy's Laws is the one in need of tweaking

Click to expand...

Should say WISH, sorry for the typo.

I have yet to get into the shock. I need to do it soon. I think I am going to go without the spacer for now. Maybe Chris will chime in here. He seems to feel it is not needed......

Hi I rode my bike with the softer valving (4 x 24.1 base shims) and found it is much more complient and deflects way less. It still retained the great grip from the rebound set up from Chris. As I ride a lot of crappy rock I may even take another shim out.

I am still out with the shock though as to wether it is better or not. The bike sits better and is better during special tests however over rock ledges it seems to bottom with a big kick. I have a shock from my old 09 berg that I will try in the next few days.

Regards
Slopie

I have already converted my shock to '10 FX specs.-much firmer and better overall!...IMHO If you want a firm fork you have to have a firm shock also,since otherwise the fork feels very harsh

suhoi27 said:

I have already converted my shock to '10 FX specs.-much firmer and better overall!...IMHO If you want a firm fork you have to have a firm shock also,since otherwise the fork feels very harsh

Click to expand...

What are the specs? I would love to do this to mine.

At my weight -230th lbs (geared), I made another test today with 88NM rear spring:if static sag is 35mm there is no way to reach recommended 105mm with 10mm preload....I stoped around 115mm. rider sag......The rear felt nice and firm, however the forks were not quite happy with it

Can people help me out with my stacks, previously set up by a well known Australian guru (not Bushie)
all shims are singular unless stated otherwise.

the check valve on top of the piston is 24x0.4
Comp
18x0.1x3
13x0.1x2
24x0.1x2
12x0.1
24x0.1
21x0.1
19x0.1
17x0.1
14x0.1
13x0.1
12x0.1
16x0.25

Mid
13x0.1
20x0.1x2
16x0.1
13x0.1
11x0.4
17x0.25
(forgot to measure float)

Reb
18Delta x 0.1 x 3 (measured from the radius curve side across to the flat side)
12x0.1
16x0.15
14x0.15
12x0.15
10x0.3
14x0.25

only other thing i measured was the little hole above the mid valve little spring on the nut was 2.5mm. Is that what people refer to as the bleed hole as it's the only hole i could see in the area?

The gold valves i have look like this:


forks currently have 0.46 springs, SKF seals and possibly KYB bushes (soon), clickers set at sport settings at the moment, although have also tried comfort and std settings with not a great improvement.
my weight is around 95kg's without gear, riding is bush trails ranging from rocky to soft loam, riding speed is somewhere intermediate (not super fast and not a snail).

main problems is harshness, poor bottoming, head shake at speeds in excess of 95-100km/h and generally not as plush as i think they should be (maybe i'm hoping for too much?) however, setup doesn't deflect of rocks etc like it did when i first got the bike.

whato Bowser

I think the first thing I would do now that you've had the suspension done is to get the ride heights and sags written here. how far the forks are through, where you sit etc and also how well it turns slow speed round a barrel type of thing?

I have found that getting the steering and balance of the bike right goes hand in hand with suspension. at the moment you seem too soft on the front or too heavy. the face shim on the MV and also two stage compression BV is hard to improve as a NASA scientist has to work out that one.

I would have thought that that MV face 13 needs upping to at least a 16. and I would up the 12 between the 24s in your BV to at least a 16 as well as pulling one of the 13s.

regards

Taffy