09 FE 450 Boiling fuel

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CodeMonkey said:
berglsmerg said:
Wow that's trippy boiling fuel...... Can't say I've seen that before. I notice there were no Aussies posting with that problem maybe juice in the states is real volaile dunno possible that feul settling is evaporaion or loss thru vopour escaping. Ambient here can be up to 45c and have seen fuel drums expand heaps when out in the sun but not " boil " afaik all Aussie bergs never had a check valve in the vent line. Just my 2 cent
The only time I notice it is on very technical (for me) trails where I am going to slow for air to get through the rads much so the bike is getting warm to hot. If I am moving at any reasonable speed I don't notice it. I am going to get the pip wrapped and a fan kit.

There isnt much like that around here although down on the river bank is fine sand single track and I've boiled the rads but have never noticed the fuel boiling. Yesterday when I was smoking the last of my tyre off the rads boiled and I stopped for a second to check the tank but I couldnt tell if it was boiling with the motor still running. I'm getting paranoid about it now. I'm getting my pipe coated with the black stuff HPC puts on turbo manifolds ( when I go back to work on the 11th ) mainly because my gear gets burnt on the pipe and when standing for extended periods my right heel feels like its being slow roasted.
 
berglsmerg said:
There isnt much like that around here although down on the river bank is fine sand single track and I've boiled the rads but have never noticed the fuel boiling. Yesterday when I was smoking the last of my tyre off the rads boiled and I stopped for a second to check the tank but I couldnt tell if it was boiling with the motor still running. I'm getting paranoid about it now. I'm getting my pipe coated with the black stuff HPC puts on turbo manifolds ( when I go back to work on the 11th ) mainly because my gear gets burnt on the pipe and when standing for extended periods my right heel feels like its being slow roasted.
Bear in mind that I am a 56 year old code monkey that hasn't ridden off-road in over a decade, so I am really out of shape and I really suck. So I go really slow - the harder it is, the slower I go. So the bike overheats.

You do have to shutoff the engine to hear the gurgling sound. I wouldn't be paranoid about it, I just think it isn't optimum to be boiling your fuel off instead of burning it inside the engine.
 
Good on ya codemonkey there should be more of it hope I'm still riding 25 years time. That's some pretty inspirational stuff right there. Yeah burinig the juice in the motor is definitley more fun :)
 
Quick tip: use a stainless worm clamp around the frame and midpipe to pull the midpipe away from the shock spring. Works much better IMO than just shimming out the silencer (I did both).
 
Now that I have some serious oingo-boingo miles on the PDS-4 ... I think I'll check for rub marks on the spring/pipe the next time I work on my Swedish girlfriend. - ET
 
I posted this info on KTM talk but some of the guys there are convinced it's the one way breather vent causing the fuel to boil, I'm not going to address their beliefs, belief what you want!!
The check valve(vent) lets atmospheric pressure into the fuel tank and slows fuel from leaking out the vent hose if you lay the bike over. If you build pressure in the tank from boiling fuel this check valve is dangerous, the pressure can not escape fast enough, when building pressure in the tank you will hear a wessing sound from the vent from the slow release of pressure. If you remove gas cap from a pressurized tank it will act like a hot radiator and could blow fuel out when pressure is relieved this has happen on my WR 450 yamaha with IMS tank and one way check valve, very dangerous!!.
fuel has different boiling points depending on the brand
You could check this on your bike to fined hot spots under the tank causing the fuel to boil. A infarred heat gun also works
Wrap the pipe it does lower trapped undertank tempertures
If you don't want to wrap the pipe get a small thermal blanket (cool-it has them, car stores) and lay the reflective side facing the pipe tring to reflect the heat away from the underside of the tank and shock area
heavy reflective aluminum foil duct taped to the under side of the tank on the big surfaces, and were the hot air gets trapped between the lower part of the tank above the pipe and rear shock area. Fined the hot spots!! This is what causes the fuel to boil/ NOT the vent. (pressurizing the tank would increase the fuels boiling point, but don't do this, very dangerous)
]Don't use the vent hose one way check valve, you need to let the vent hose vent in both directions to and from the tank to relieve the buildup of pressure for safety. the stock fuel tank cap has a ball in it that will restrict pressure also very easy to remove.
Don't use cheap fuel or fuel with ethanol
If your really inventive build a small aluminum oval air scoop (1''by5'') on the left side of engine and duct the air under the tank
For my FE570 these things have stop any boiling problems.
Have a great ride
 
There is a big difference between your gas tank having a ton of pressure (hissing noise is air escaping, I've seen it push fuel out if you disconnect part of the breather hose) and boiling gas.

So you guys are removing that plastic section on the breather hose with the little ball on it because of the build up of pressure in the tank? So what if your gas tank is under pressure? The berg is fuel injected, and gas under pressure will have a higher boiling point.
 
basementsafe said:
There is a big difference between your gas tank having a ton of pressure (hissing noise is air escaping, I've seen it push fuel out if you disconnect part of the breather hose) and boiling gas.

So you guys are removing that plastic section on the breather hose with the little ball on it because of the build up of pressure in the tank? So what if your gas tank is under pressure? The berg is fuel injected, and gas under pressure will have a higher boiling point.
If the pressure gets high enough --- gas can force its way past the seal on the fuel pump base-plate --- and raw gas can run down the back of your bike. Which is not so good....
 
E-Ticket said:
basementsafe said:
There is a big difference between your gas tank having a ton of pressure (hissing noise is air escaping, I've seen it push fuel out if you disconnect part of the breather hose) and boiling gas.

So you guys are removing that plastic section on the breather hose with the little ball on it because of the build up of pressure in the tank? So what if your gas tank is under pressure? The berg is fuel injected, and gas under pressure will have a higher boiling point.
If the pressure gets high enough --- gas can force its way past the seal on the fuel pump base-plate --- and raw gas can run down the back of your bike. Which is not so good....

E-Ticket hit it on the nose. Last month I was doing the Sandy Lane Enduro on my 09 FE450 and they had a loooong section of VERY tight trail through scrub pines. Crawling along at slow speed the bike was running hot with an occasional boil over due to the lack of air flow through the radiators. I pulled over to let the bike cool down and as I was getting off the bike I noticed fuel pouring (not dripping) on to the hot motor. The fuel was boiling and steaming on the motor and pipe and I was afraid it was going to go up in flames at any second. Initially I suspected I melted a hole in the fuel hose. I could hear a hissing so I took off the seat and discovered that the fuel was squirting out of the bottom seating surface of the pressure regulator where it mounts to the fuel tank. My air filter was soaked with fuel which was squirting out because of the pressure built up in the fuel tank. I first attempted to tighten the 4 screws but that didn't resolve the problem. I proceeded to remove the 4 screws and pull the fuel regulator out. It appeared as though the mating surface had a small depression in the middle and the lower left threaded hole had a raised surface. My initial conclusion was that the heat from the motor was rising up through the small square opening in the fuel tank and caused a deformation. Another rider that stopped to help me used a knife to remove the plastic protrusion around the threaded hole which was now partially stripped from the pressure build up. I remounted the pressure regulator and started the bike and the fuel leak was resolved (at least for the rest of the ride).

When I got back to the start area one of the guys I was riding with told me that at the gas stop he witnessed another guy unscrewing his Husaberg gas cap and the pressure built up inside the tank blew the cap right out of his hand and sprayed fuel out. He also said there was talk at the gas stop of the exact same thing happening to another guy with a Husaberg. This got me thinking on the drive home. I concluded that the pressure built up in the tank forced one corner to pop up creating the gap due to the raised plastic.

Two observations when I got home:

1) Page 17 of my chassis spare parts manual shows item 15, a metal mounting plate (p/n 81206019000) with 3 sides and 4 mounting holes. My mounting plate only had 2 sides and 3 mounting holes. The threaded hole that partially stripped was the one that was not covered by the mounting plate.

2) Page 17 of chassis spare parts manual only indicates 3 item 16 screws (p/n 0017060303). It does not specify a screw for the fourth hole. Page 19 of the manual shows 4 item 20 screws (p/n 0017060303). The screw in the corner described above (without the mounting plate) was shorter than the other 3.

I am VERY lucky that the bike did not go up in flames and that I was able to ride it out.

Fast forward......I contacted my dealer after the race and he assisted me with getting a replacement fuel tank under warranty because the threaded holes and mating surface to the regulator had been compromised. It says a lot about Husaberg that they stand behind their product. I wasted no time in removing the ball from the gas cap which, in hindsight, I believe is the root cause of the problem. I also installed a CV4 heat blanket to my tank. I also plan on installing a fan. I should mention the metal mounting plate referred to above had 3 sides/4 holes on the replacement tank (just like the picture in my manual). I'm told the 2010 tanks have metal inserts for the 4 mounting screws.
 
WoodsRooster said:
Two observations when I got home:

1) Page 17 of my chassis spare parts manual shows item 15, a metal mounting plate (p/n 81206019000) with 3 sides and 4 mounting holes. My mounting plate only had 2 sides and 3 mounting holes. The threaded hole that partially stripped was the one that was not covered by the mounting plate.

2) Page 17 of chassis spare parts manual only indicates 3 item 16 screws (p/n 0017060303). It does not specify a screw for the fourth hole. Page 19 of the manual shows 4 item 20 screws (p/n 0017060303). The screw in the corner described above (without the mounting plate) was shorter than the other 3.

I am VERY lucky that the bike did not go up in flames and that I was able to ride it out.

Fast forward......I contacted my dealer after the race and he assisted me with getting a replacement fuel tank under warranty because the threaded holes and mating surface to the regulator had been compromised. It says a lot about Husaberg that they stand behind their product. I wasted no time in removing the ball from the gas cap which, in hindsight, I believe is the root cause of the problem. I also installed a CV4 heat blanket to my tank. I also plan on installing a fan. I should mention the metal mounting plate referred to above had 3 sides/4 holes on the replacement tank (just like the picture in my manual). I'm told the 2010 tanks have metal inserts for the 4 mounting screws.
Saturday I had my tank off partially to remove the clutch lever and line (I have a Rekluse and LHRB).

I had removed the plate you mentioned and all four screws to look at the filter on the pickup (to see if there was any garbage on it like others had - there was none).

I noticed when I replaced the plate and the four screws - one short screw that the plate did not cover, that one short screw would not tighten down properly.

Another 570 owner on AdvRider mentioned that he had the same problem - his dealer (which is also mine) put epoxy in the hole and then the screw held.

So now that is three new FEs that have had this problem.
 
It's true that the 2010 FE tanks have metal inserts for the fuel pump plate and the pressure reg plate.

I'm also thinking of removing that little ball inside the cap to allow pressure to escape. I ran my other two bergs with a straight hose, instead of a one way valve so that pressure would not build up. I'm guessing the little ball is to help seal the vent hose in the event of a tip over to help keep fuel from flowing freely out the vent line. Have never experienced the cap blow off thing before, but, have heard the little ball rattling around when it was hot.

The bikes that you heard about the caps popping off of, were they FE 2010's? The FE 010's have a check valve in the vent line for EPA reasons and only allow air in, and none out.

As stated earlier in this thread I believe, the addition of the CV4 blanket, some header wrap, and a fan kit will probably solve this problem for you. I have just the header wrap, and the fan kit, and that seems to have helped a lot.
 
DaleEO said:
It's true that the 2010 FE tanks have metal inserts for the fuel pump plate and the pressure reg plate.

The bikes that you heard about the caps popping off of, were they FE 2010's? The FE 010's have a check valve in the vent line for EPA reasons and only allow air in, and none out.

I had the option of getting a 2010 tank but I wanted the light gray so I could easily see the fuel level. In hindsight maybe the 2010 version would have been the wiser choice because of the enhancements. I would have also had to pay $80 for the 2010 tank but I wanted the light gray.

I do not know if they were 09's or 10's
 
I witnessed the fuel tank pressure issue this weekend. I heard some noise coming from the vent hose, popped the cap and released the pressure while I was sitting. What is strange is, that I had to lay the bike down to move a log a few days before, and gas ran out the overflow like there was no check valve. :?: Should I be talking to my dealer about replacing something?
 
Serpexc said:
I witnessed the fuel tank pressure issue this weekend. I heard some noise coming from the vent hose, popped the cap and released the pressure while I was sitting. What is strange is, that I had to lay the bike down to move a log a few days before, and gas ran out the overflow like there was no check valve. :?: Should I be talking to my dealer about replacing something?

I would never had thought it was hot enough around here for this to happen. Guess I better get rid of that check valve in the cap.
 
My personal experience with a 2010 FX450. At a race earlier this year, I was running very well and in third spot. On the last lap, about 1.5 miles from the end, the bike died. I thought maybe I was out of gas and got some. No go. Took the seat off and found the fuse for the fuel pump had blown. Swapped it out and finished the race, in eight.

I have already taken the ball out of the cap. I have also put some silver tape on the bottom of the tank.

This past weekend was very hot. I used the bike all day to help hurt riders and work the course. Started the main event race at 1:30. Ran almost two laps before the bike died. Pulled the seat and the fuse was blown. Changed fuse, went two feet and blew the fuse again. I could hear the fuel gurgling in the tank so I slowly released the cap to vent the pressure. I then put in my last spare fuse and started the bike with the cap loose. I was able to ride back to the pits.

Now, forty-five minutes later, the part of the tank under the middle of the seat was still too hot to touch with my hand. This heat problem is serious. I'll be getting my pipe coated by a local guy here in Virginia Beach and I'll be ordering the CV4 blanket first thing tomorrow. I also noticed on Lafferty's bike that he has some sort of insulation on his radiator hoses, especially where they get near the pipe. I asked his mechanic but he said Mike finds that stuff himself and he didn't know where. I had never seen insulation like it. It is black and is just slightly larger than the radiator hoses. It slips over the hose and it appears it shrinks some and sticks to the hose itself.
Any ideas???
 
hey CrazyTed,

Do you have the Husaberg radiator fan installed? just wonderin' ....

E-Ticket
 
Is it this stuff?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DEI-010474/
For the really high tech(and expensive) stuff you need to look at specific race shops. Find one back there that caters to NASCAR.
This week-end I managed to boil over my radiator but still didn't boil the fuel. I don't run a fan as I have battery/start issues and I can't spare the battery draw til I figure them out. My Factory effect temp sticker was maxed out. I think that is 248 degrees. I run pipe wrap and I have wrapped the fuel line and bottom of the air box. I will wrap/insulate the tank at some point. I am actually waiting until I boil my fuel to see at what temp it boils at. I have a temp sensor mounted in the fuel module. Pipe wrap dropped the fuel temps an average of 20 degrees. Slow riding and short shifting raises the temps. The fuel pressure return line dumps right in to the module above the fuel screen and fuel is recirculating too much. I thought about running the return line out of the fuel module but that will effect getting the last little bit of fuel out of the tank probably.

Not the best of pics but you can see the stuff
P4160256.jpg

Fuel temp sensor

P3180145.jpg


sensor mounted in module
P3180140.jpg
 
No, I don't have a Rad fan but I'm also not losing any coolant at all!!! Don't believe I need to cool the coolant, only the fuel. I just ordered the CV4 under tank blanket and I've scheduled to get an estimate on coating the pipe. We'll see.
 
My Gas used to boil, I stopped running premium Gas and my boiling gas issues went away. Yes these bike heat the fuel both with the submersed pump and the exhaust pipe location, but the reason the Gas boils is because of the additives in the fuel that increase the octane rating. FYI increasing the pressure of a liquid raises it's boiling point. Releasing the cap or drilling the vent lowers the temp is why it helps. If you don't believe me try it. I stumbled upon this by accident. I was running late once and filled my bike from the same pump I was filling my truck with.
(87 Octane)boiling went away!
Mark
 

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