Tricks for installing carb - it's in but it wasn't pretty

i always fitted the carb first , then cables , then fitted the cover .

with a bit of twisting , pushing , and then it would snap on .

I dont usually unhook the cables from the carb to remove it. I seem to remember pulling the stater out of the way for more room. It's only 2 easy to get at bolts.

Did you get the adjustable air bleed with Dales kit? If so, did you modify bell?
You will want to remove the AP rod. Trust me, you will not need it.

berger said:

You will want to remove the AP rod. Trust me, you will not need it.

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+1 Unless you regularly bang the throttle open to the stop from fully closed.

if I remember correctly Kez and I did Dez's on the river bank and took it apart AFTER we removed it from the boots. A right Bi*ch but Kez showed the way.

Starter removal.
2 bolts, gently wiggle while pulling firmly. Installation is just as easy.

As far as the AP goes, I have never once missed it, but then I dont ride asphault.

gotta plug the hole :twisted: might as well take out the idler too

FWIW,here's my take on it-having had it off,then on,then off.With the rod out,I can pull fourth gear from low rpms on a particular corner on our practice track whereas with the rod in,I can only pull third as fourth in this case feels like the bike is in too high of a gear.The response from low rpms is much better with it out unless you slam the throttle open hard-which I did last year with it out when I panic revved it over a double,bogged,hit the lip,and went over the bars.I since have it back out but I just remember not to slam it open from an idle.If I remember correctly,some on here(johnf3?)have went to a Honda pump diapragm as it has a 1 sec squirt duration and the Berg has a 3 sec duration(someone correct me if I'm wrong here.)This may be a better solution if this is what you want.On the other hand,having the rod out is just like having a big tank-it's amazing how much your range/mileage improves.

oh boy!

first of all ford you should only have a short squirt off the bottom of the shortest duration possible whilst keeping the function. i don't understand how you can therefore be on a closed throttle in third or fourth gear?

there is a difference between having it and not and i can't see how you can claim to have truly checked it ken? i mean did you piddle about at 3mph in front of some logs or rocks and try testing the difference?

and since when did dale try this type of test?

Mark
you should have left the housing cover off. you haven't set the carb yet and until you have you'll need easy access. easy mistake to make.

regards

Taffy

there is a difference between having it and not and i can't see how you can claim to have truly checked it ken? i mean did you piddle about at 3mph in front of some logs or rocks and try testing the difference?

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taffy,
Of all people ,you should know.....all I do is piddle about!! The vast majority of my riding is single track or wide open sand washs. Not many logs around but more than enough rocks.
The beauty of Dales kit is that it has no AP. When piddling about over tight single track and rocks, it is impossible to keep a steady hand on the throttle. Every small jolt or twitch is giving unwanted squirts of fuel from the AP leading to an over rich condition while bouncing around at slow speed.
Has this ever caused me a problem? I cant really say, although I know the condition exsists.
I had Dale's kit installed in my 650 that I sold to Colby. That bike raced and finished the Baja 1000 with no complaints on the jetting or performance. I had other's ride the bike who thought the jetting was "perfect". When you tell them there is no AP installed you get the proverbial "Huhhhh!!"
Last week I had 2 mates ride the 496 with Dale's kit installed in a combination of tight singletrack and high speed sand washes. I have 2 new Husaberg converts. 1 from Husky, the other KTM.
In the end, all I am stating is "I don't miss the AP". Since I dont ride on tarmac I cant't say for sure what the results would be in a SM situation.

Mark,
Adjustment of the air bleed is critical. You will want to install the carb with out the air filter boot so you can adjust it while the bike is running. The screw is a very fine adjustment. 1/2 a turn has enormous consequences on the idle quality.

Taffy said:

oh boy!

i don't understand how you can therefore be on a closed throttle in third or fourth gear?



Taffy

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Quite easily actually taffy.A down hill double with a very short distance to a 90' bermed right hander.Over the double,upshift to fourth,land hard on both brakes with the clutch in,begin turn,release clutch,complete turn and go.There you have it-closed throttle in fourth gear.We don't all putter around in sheep pastures you know. :wink:

yes but you didn't let the engine match the closed throttle you opened the throttle and dropped the clutch. that isn't the same thing and you know it!!!! i'm saying that the engine is already holding high revs when you do this.

ken, you forget that i have the lineaweaver kit too and was probably second to fit it. i tested it and posted results, i don't normally try to pull rank but when someone says that they don't need the squirt and haven't tried the two back-toback well i'm sorry but you just haven't tested it and have taken dale's word for it.

i was and still am an advocate of no APJ and said it loud 'n proud on TT BUT and it's a big BUT: i tested the WR400 with a smidgen and it really does work. as dale does flat track and dyno work he isn't going to give you 'the numbers' for the APJ off a closed throttle in first.

that is that. and everytime someone says they don't need APJ i'll say "they do and try/test it!".

regards

Taffy

Taffy said:

yes but you didn't let the engine match the closed throttle you opened the throttle and dropped the clutch. that isn't the same thing and you know it!!

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:lol: Yeah,I'd have to agree,it's not.That being the case,in your opinion,what should be the proper setup and the best way to achieve it.I'm willing to test itand be proven wrong.

ken, you forget that I have the lineaweaver kit too and was probably second to fit it. i tested it and posted results, i don't normally try to pull rank but when someone says that they don't need the squirt and haven't tried the two back-toback well i'm sorry but you just haven't tested it and have taken dale's word for it.

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No taffy I did not forget that you had one of Dales kits, and that you did alot of testing for him.
I don't know why you assummed I did not try the pump. I did....but the sole reason for getting the kit was to eliminate the AP for slow speed ridability.
The one issue i had with the kit was a flat spot while rolling on the throttle in 4th and 5th gear in deep sand. I added the pump to try to eliminate that problem. At the end of the day removing the pump and raising the main to a 165 cured the problem for the most part ( when you ride in over 100Fjetting can be alittle spotty).

At the end of the day, it's just my opinion, and I'm positive you have forgotten more about jetting than I know..
After having a few discussions with Dale, it is my belief that he designed the kit with the intention of eliminating the AP. When in doubt, I will stick with the evil genius who developed the kit.
Moral of the story, use whatever works. By all means give it a go with the AP. I'm just saying (dont read anything into this thats not there) I don't miss the AP.

Now who's buying the next round

ford

i've suggested that we only roll the throttle on from closed and low revs in the first two gears, after that we roll the throttle, chgange gear and open the throttle agin but the slide doesn't physically hit the bottom of the carb in third plus gears.

the biggest problem with the APJ is that as ken says: it sups the fuel. but if you check the APJ you'll find that the only place it works is off a closed throttle. so of course first and second gears - slow speeds or pottering along as we call it (dawdelling?) then snap the throttle. the APJ is only good for 1 metre in my book. so it's therefore excellent over a log or rock if the rest of the jetting etc is spot on.

with the APJ reduced to it's minimum pumping ability you get a pathetic squirt of less than a second. i was asked on TT how long it squirted for and i replied "i don't know! i have the minimum pumping action that the diaphram can cope with, maybe less than a second. the important thing is .028" gap in the taff mod otherwise the diaphram doesn't function."

the next poster put up the answer as not being .028" but "it must last less than a second".....what the phuq could i do!!!! you can take a horse to water....

the funniest thing is people then started saying to me in PM's and later posts: dear taffy, i've tried using a stop watch but i can't hit the button twice and quick enough also i can't turn the throttle..." it was almost macabre the way it went.

anyway, unless you close the throttle the APJ set up as i have and had had it doesn't function so fuel economy is excellent and i still hold some kind of record when you consider i did just under 5 hours racing on a 9-litre tank at the tail end of 2005.

as said, dale can't develop the APJ on the dytno and he don't ride dirt - can you all get that in your heads so that means that this particular point is outside his remit. we both agree that the APJ isn't required once the venturi signal has got going (i.e. above idle).

regards

Taffy

Makes sense to me Taff,thanks.I'll try it in the next week or two when I get a chance to fiddle with the bike and see what develops.