Seized 02 FX470.. might need a little help (pic heavy)

Hey there Rotbox!

I also have an 02 FX470 and I loved the hell out of that bike. My cb bearing also collapsed and took out the main bearing next to it, in pretty much the same as yours. Apart from those horrible SEM ignitions, I think they are awesome bikes once you do a couple of quick mods here and there to 'upgrade' the bike to the same spec as the newer bikes.

I have a couple of projects that I've worked on and took some pictures of the mods I did, but mostly I'm lazy and never get to posting the pictures in that post.

I will try to get that post updated, you might see a couple of things you might want to also do, or not.

Cheers!

there is nothing wrong with SKF bearings, last time you were here you quoted a 450 that had had them go, this time Orangeberg. that's two. In the meantime, I have been fitting them to every engine since I started bar a couple (balls etc) with no problems. the problem from the factory and with builders was the lack of float.

you cannot accept that enginehardwear and I both used them and are totally happy with them.

keep it up, slag off SKFs all day but the difference is, I get to rebuild all those engines that are fine, my customers rebuild them and if we can we advise on the float. I don't know of any failures whatsoever!

none!!!!

the only problems anyone in the UK has is with double ball and the bull ring at the workshop you advocate. these people are getting less than 10 hours out of their bikes and you tell them to go there! you actually do "everyone a favour" and send them there so that they can get 10 hours out of an engine.

so to anyone who believes me, SKFs are 100% great. I have rebuilt over 100 (nearer 200) engines with them with no failures. Bushmechanic has a littany of failures to tell you all about, so much so that he always has his engines in bits and has to start threads on the subject as though to "control" the subject. what makes his threads/posts definitive?

they're not.

I'm far more in a position to say that the SKFs are good. the SKFs are excellent. Bushmechanic has a theory that the ends of the rollers don't scrape off so much, yes in theory that is true. but when you have more float it doesn't matter, what you actually get with the SKFs is more roller width in contact.

remember, Enginehardwear wouldn't use anything else.

can you trust the word of just one "someone" with a 450? when I first started, everyone blamed balancer bearings for engine falures. it turned out that the mechanics were thugs and that the balancers rarely if ever gave trouble. but to call them a major problem was ********.

if an engine fails: is a mechanic going blame himself or a "bearing that is well known for failing"?

the SKFs are fine. I've used the NTNs now and they look fine too but surely over 100 engine rebuilds without any problems bar a twisted crank in 2008 is enough to prove it.

regards

Taffy

if you have never had any trouble with SKF roller bearings in your engine then please holla out now and say it. let's get this sorted please?

Taffy

OK taffy is taking this personally because he doesn't like me

It's not me who discovered the difference and I've never seen a 450

Orange berg noticed the difference between the mains in many factory race bikes running the fink desert Race. My testing backs that up too.

There is a real difference ! Taffy doesn't agree because he never found the problem which proves quite simply that Orange berg is 100 times more experienced with running these engines hard than taffy

in Australia skf still fail regularly with correct endfloat and Ntn are cheaper and better end of story.

there is a 644 in the UK running NTN mains with ZERO endfloat. its been like that for years !

there are Zero pictures of failed NTN main bearings. that includes all of the KTM rfs builds on ktm talk

regarding engine hardware: he posted that while they were using skf they were changing the mains at 100hrs to be safe ....

the only problems anyone in the UK has is with double ball and the bull ring at the workshop you advocate. these people are getting less than 10 hours out of their bikes and you tell them to go there! you actually do "everyone a favour" and send them there so that they can get 10 hours out of an engine.

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What the **** are you on about ? got pictures ? any evidence ? taffy is completely full of ****

i don't advocate any workshop in the uk, parts supply yes. for a good berg workshop you need to see orangeberg or Boss

everytime taffy posts "i have zero problems with x or y" we find out later its not true.

Rot Box said:

Oops, looks like I brought up a sore subject on the crank mains It helps though I went from knowing nothing about the internals of a Husaberg to feeling pretty confident about getting it back together and running.


Should I replace the connecting rod? Or rebuild mine with new bearing/bushing?


Looks like the later models had needle bearings under the clutch basket vs. the brass bushing mine has. And also a roller bearing on the main shaft vs. the ball bearing mine has.. (those main shaft ball bearings blow up on KTM LC4's.... believe me I know haha) Assuming I can upgrade to these parts as well?


Man....... so those oil ports on the case halves and between the head and crank case.. How do you NOT get sealant in those when everything goes back together? Some of those ports were nearly blocked off with sealant on mine. I would hate to have those plug up and fry a new engine..

I was planning on using Three Bond/Hondabond on the case halves etc is that the correct sealant for these?


Oh and if I'm beating a dead horse with all these newbie questions please let me know LOL.

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hi rot box,

new conrod, get one made by carrillo if you cant find one, 330 usd

there is only one oil port you need to be careful of, it feeds into the lhs case, just wipe the sealant away from its edges about 2mm before assembly

threebond 1207B is the best stuff, its better than most O rings when dry, (another orangeberg tip)

the other threebonds or hondabonds usually used are a bit harder when dry but they work ok.

Yeah like Bushmechanic said, I also just wipe a lil bit of sealant away from that hole.
Have a look inside the lhs engine case, there where the balancer sits, there should be a tiny little hole in the case, drilled into the oil journal for spraying the underside of the piston. As I understand some did not have this hole at all, but i drilled it out and fitted the oil jet there as on the newer BerGs. Rhs case, there should be a hole drilled that catches oil and drips down to the back of the ign side main bearing, I have countersunk that hole a bit to create a funnel to better catch the oil(I think I got that from one of Bushmechanics threads, thanks Bushie!).

I had also tunneled through the separation in the cam cover, that separates the cam gear from the rocker shaft side. These tunnels were cast there in the later cam covers for splash lubing the valve gear, just tried to replicate that to get more lube to the cam follower bearings, as they are a problem on those bikes and prone to failure. The newer bikes are splash lube only, with no pressure feed to the head and they seem to have less issues with cfb's failing. I will put my pictures up soon in the '450 and 501 tinkering' thread.

Dual valve springs upgrade, or atleast try to get the newer type valve spring retainers, as I saw they changed to a different type retainer in '03 or '04 to have less preload on those very harsh conical springs. Dual valve springs are they way to go, really, especially on those 2001 and 2002 bikes.

Have a look at 'Bushmechanics mongrel 628' thread, some very useful stuff in there, and also his 'balancing a 628 crank' thread. Nice explanations with plenty pictures etc etc.

On the question of if it's worth the effort to pour all this work into an '02 Husaberg, I have this to say. I recently rode a friend's '14 KTM 450SX specifically to see if I should give up my old bike habit and get something modern. No doubt, the KTM turned extremely well and the power was great. However, I decided that the new bikes just aren't that much better. It was after this ride that I decided to pour all my resources into a '96 Husaberg FC600 that I have. I bought the bike for $400 and, through some heroic crankshaft work, got it running. See my thread (http://husaberg.org/mechanical/16703-husaberg-ktm-hybrid-engine.html). I'm now building another engine for it that will displace 660cc and have plans to send the forks (2013 KTM Closed Chamber) and shock to Stillwell for their A kit mods. The engine will get Microblue coatings throughout and I've got Excel A60 rims front and rear. In the end I will have spent about 2/3 of what I would on a new bike but will end up with something totally unique that I'll have tremendous pride in because I built it. Plus, it will give up almost nothing to the newer bikes in performance and the looks on the faces of my riding buddies will be priceless when I blow their doors off on this machine.

Incidentally, I also have an '03 Husaberg with a '95 501 engine that I plan to punch out to 550cc next year. This is also an amazing machine.

In summary - YES, it's worth the effort.

thumper racing can do it and organize the rod and probably bearing and big end pin

wont be cheap but its worth asking, FWIW ktmtalk members get a discount.

https://www.thumperracing.net/

nobody gets a rod made although many noises are made. we do a rod kit a lot cheaper than carillo and ready to go. there's usually nothing wrong with OEM rods. just the little end bush.

Taffy

carrillo one off carburised rods are used by many husaberg owners including members here and others who have built their own 710cc engines.

there are also threads on here showing taffys "rod kits" have failed. they are easy to find with google.

It's really strange that no-one there feels comfortable rebuilding that crank.
BTW,you can get an aftermarket rod for the 470 Husaberg. The crank pin needs to be modified, but the rod does the job. Hotrods 8665 or Pro-X equivalent is 03.6423 I believe. This info should also be in one of the other threads. Hacker33 also has a couple of 450 related posts with some nice pictures which you can check out, I believe the conrod info is in one of his posts.

bushmechanic said:

Carrillo one off carburised rods are used by many Husaberg owners including members here and others who have built their own 710cc engines.

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yes, specialist engines needing special rods but for mere mortals this just isn't on, you are trying to get rot box to get a rod designed and made when they are on the bloody shelf for christsakes!

bushmechanic said:

there are also threads on here showing Taffy's "rod kits" have failed. they are easy to find with google.

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I call upon EVERYONE HERE to get this sorted.

OK Bushie, put up or shut up! your slagging me off so you put it up here. where have one of my rod kits failed? AND I ASK EVERYONE, EVERYONE TO GET INVOLVED THIS TIME.

we wait for the evidence

Taffy

Prox and hotrod kits are inferior to oem rods. This is a proven fact Ask any of the engine builders on ktmtalk.

The option of a one off Carrillo is merely an option. I'm not trying to get anyone to do anything

Regarding your kits failing It's in the threads mentioned by wardog

Why not Find them yourself and explain in those threads instead of mucking up this one

i have no kits in that thread.

you're so full of **** its piling up to the back door. your favourite little CS must wonder why they backed Dobbin.

your a trouble making idiot. a natural one at that but most of all your just ugly inside with nothing nice about you. what with what my Lions Tour mates say about Western Australians: you've put me off your end for good. it was always the one place in the world I told everyone I wanted to go but not now.

Well, does he not have to answer to ANY of you?

Taffy

Taffy. 2 of your kits failed as mentioned in those threads ?

Definately a lot of pro x rods failing.

Read them again

this is from a 10 page article that Hacker33 was involved in. Below is what YOU wrote.

it is also the only failure on the entire thread. it has nothing to do with me.

bushmechanic said:

you can see here a quaint little trench has been machined just as Taffy has described then someone has ground out a section with a grinder costing 30c plus VAT to make sure the holes line up .. nothing wrong with that at all .. great idea in fact.

unfortunately it does look like someone with a large diam grinder has also elongated the little trench too far toward the center of the pin .. you can see where the edge of the crank web was from the mark on the pin and the extra grinding goes too far ... IMHO resulting in lack of oil pressure to the big end.

so its probably one of taffys kits that someone tried to fix with a grinder

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according to Hacvker, his pin had the appearance of being turned in a lathe. ours are ground.

you need to get your facts right.

Taffy

Rot Box,
I will mirror what Bushie says in that Thumper Racing is a GREAT source for crankshaft work. I was in Their shop a few weeks ago dropping off my engine (the one that's getting punched out to 660cc) and Travis offered to do the crank work for me (balancing and pressing). He also showed me a custom Carillo rod he had made for a KTM 525. This rod has a bronze bushing pressed in the little end and a hardened steel ring pressed in the big end. Carillo offers a rebuilding service for this rod so it can literally last you a lifetime. I can tell you that, after holding it in my hand and taking a very close look at it, it was engine porn! Consequently, He's measured up a rod I gave him and I will be receiving one of these rebuildable Carillo rods in the coming weeks. Travis even had a custom titanium wrist pin that he sold me for a very reasonable price. It's nice that most of the RFS engines and Husaberg engines seem to use the same wrist pin.

Incidentally, I used to own a KTM 250SXF that I raced to 2nd place in the over-30 expert class in the northern Nevada desert race series back in 2009 and I had Thumper racing build me a 320cc engine for that bike. It was a phenomenal machine!

I've also been in contact with Dave Hopkins of DJH Racing in Washington for working over my cylinder head. He mentioned that he has experience working on Husaberg heads of the '01 to '08 vintage and, although my head is a '96, he should have no troubles with it because it is almost identical to the KTM RFS head which he has tremendous experience with.

Now, as far as Bushie vs. Taffy - I regard both very highly. Taffy actually suggested a rod with a hardened ring long before I ever saw the one from Carillo. Thus, I instantly knew it was a viable option. I have one of Taffy's dual valve spring kits ready to go in my 660. Bushie has provided innumerable nuggets of knowledge in his posts throughout this community as well as KTMtalk. I am an aerospace engineer by trade and a mechanical engineer by education and recognize quality concepts when I see them. Reading Bushie's various comments has made me smarter. So, if you can ignore the pissing match, there are good lessons to be learned from both.