Sags on the 09 Bergs.

Hi, Just reading Pollos post on race sags and didnt want to hijack it as it could be brewing up for a good slanging match :lol:
Wondered whether any of you guys with 09 fe450/570 s have set up sags and started dialling clickers yet?
At the moment, my bike seems to work well soft, i.e. high sags for trail/woods enduro type riding. I notice a big differnce between sitting and standing readouts and also with the fuel spread out under the seat, the weight of that becomes an issue.

Anyway , i will start the ball rolling. I am 192lbs and 212lbs with gear on fe570.
These readings are with gear and a half tank of fuel.
Changed to 84/250 spring. Forks as standard. All clickers standard.

Static= 45mm, Racing 124mm (sitting), 115mm (standing). Preload 5mm.

Cheers,
Nick

DaleEO said:

Hi Nick,

It has been my experience over the last 7 years of riding the PDS type of suspensions, that the static sag has got to be right first. Then if the rider sag is way off, then the spring needs to be changed.

So my two cents here is the static sag needs to be right, between 30-35mm. If the static sag is not correct the bike will not handle right, and the ride quality will suffer.

Once the correct spring is on, for 105mm of rider sag with 30-35mm of static sag, you will be able to notice a change in spring pre load of one turn either way.

Click to expand...

Hi Dale,
Thanks for the input, but i will wait for more feedback before going for a heavier spring. Not saying your wrong but the manual figures have been way out for the last 5 years for PDS, certainly for the ktms ive had anyway. Look at the spring rates to weight ratio they print in the manual, they are a joke.
Dont forget the internal pistons/valving changes from year to year and my 05 worked really well with 92 spring , 4mm preload, yet the static was 42 and riders 115, something to do with top out piston.
Guess we need to know more about the internals and geometry for the 09s.
I'll try a change if i'm out numbered.
How did you get on with the 570 ? A smile on your face or a grimace and clenched buttocks :lol:

Cheers,
Nick

VIKING said:

Hi
these are some guide lines
if your static sag is 35mm and rider sag 120 mm, if you keep tightening the spring you might end up with coil bind that could be ugly, so you need the next heavier spring
if your static sag 45mm and 120 rider sag your spring is too heavy
some of you have to heavy springs for your weight given the numbers you posted
if you have a spring that is significantly heavier than stock rebound would be affected
and if a simple rebound adjustment could not take care of it a revalve is next.
this is what i notice on my 09, I could not get the sag number with stock spring so I
rode the bike with 125mm rider sag with that sag the bike was under steering in sweeping turns even when I completely unscrewed front fork pre load it still under steered
so I got a heavier spring 7.6 sag numbers 37 / 115 mm it felt a lot better the ride was more plush but it was hard to judge the under steer because of snow ice and studded tires, it handles better in the sweeping turns haven't had chance ride since but I think
that the owners manual suggestion 35/110r sag is where bike handles the best
I think that setups you learned from previous bergs and other bikes does not apply to this bike because of the weight distribution

later VIKING

Click to expand...

Hi Viking,
Great info, thanks.
Can you give us your riding weight and preload onto the 7.6, 37/115 setup so we have a reference. And any updates youmight get when you ride again.
I think you are right , the new berg does react differently and i need to change my way of thinking from my previous bike setups.

Cheers, Nick

Aytheist1 wrote:

I don't know much about my suspension because I don't do it. I know it is the best suspension I have ever ridden. I'm 200 w/out gear. I didn't like the stock suspension at all. I run 2.5wt fluid, 48's in the front and one size heavier spring in the rear. I have aircells. My lame-o suggestion is to do a proper job on the back but to make the front very soft because all that power doesn't let the front touch down much.
As far as power differences between the 450 and 570, I believe the 570 is superior in almost every way. Motocross would be the exception. The 450 revs faster. That snappiness is neccessary in moto. Everybody seems to be scared of 565 cc's pulling your arms off, shooting you right into a tree, or just looping it out, but the big tourquey 570 is perfectly smooth in power delivery

KTex wrote:

I am a 50B+ Rider and I am "confused" with the suspension - I will admit I probably am my worst enemy with suspension set-up althought I have been riding/racing for 35 years. The stock suspension is rather good but personal setup is critical. I too weigh 175 pounds in street clothes and am in good shape. I run the stock or "standard" setting and tried the "comfort" setting which beat me up. We ride in S/E Texas in the piney woods (National enduros since the early 1970's and a few ISD qualifiers). The Trails have roots, roots, and more roots, but what is more challenging is the whoops - after 300 bikes on the loop twice for the Texas state enduro lat month (the Husa got me first place 50-B BTW) - it is a tough ride. Originally I set my sag at 45mm/140mm which dramatically improved the steering and was quite nice. But now that set up is wrong - went back to thre 100% stock (25mm/105mm) an it did better in the whoops but still I can't pin-point the suspension setup for a superior ride and plushness, The forks seem quite decent - it is the shock. I just put on a 7.6 Newton spring (7.2 is stock) but the sag number don't jive (40mm = 100mm - in steet clothes) - but the supension is better balanced in the garage test - I'll test it soon, more shock rebond helped in the previos rides

RBott wrote:

Full Factory Connection revalve, Reservoir bladder kit, and a new rear spring. I ride New England roots and rocks. The bike is amazing! My clicker settings and sag numbers will mean nothing to people with stock suspension because of the revalve.

All I can say is that Factory Connection knows WP suspension and hit this Husaberg set-up really good on the first try. I am riding in snow with spiked tires right now so I cannot test it the way I would like.

They do WP suspension for some of the best names in offroad, one of them being Mike Lafferty, 8x National Enduro Champion. Also Jack Lafferty, 2009 ECEA Enduro Champ, and Brooks Hamilton, 2009 NETRA Enduro Champ, just to name a few!

My weight-175lbs street clothes
AA Rider, 6th overall 2008 NETRA Enduro Series.

Raced a KTM 250XCF last season and this Berg already handles better and has the power that I missed last season.

Call Zak at Factory Connection and he will get you set-up, tell him I sent you.

Ryan Bottesi

SCJ wrote:

'09 FE450
245 b-day suit, 260 w/gear
.48's 3 turns in on preload
8.8 w/6 mm preload
40 static 118 rider
All compression (hi & lo) settings on comfort, rebound on forks and shock are on firm.

Amazing results last time out.

VIKING said:

NKW570
Looks like you copy and paste every entry on Ktalk on the subject but it don't sway me
with your weight a 7.6 should be just right, I try ed some progressive springs but the sag
numbers were not right not to say that progressive could be better but have not found it yet, so for me 7.6 is the right spring for right now, suspension can be very confusing but if you don't try different settings you will never gain the knowledge
the golden rule "only do ONE ADJUSTMENT at the time"

later VIKING

Click to expand...

Hi Viking,
Yeah, i am torn between 7.6 & 7.8, (i may have eaten a few more turkey rolls than you over xmas). I am happy with straight rate on the pds but i like min preload 4-6mm if poss.
The copy and paste is to build up a reference chart for 09 berg riders, all on one thread, so we can make an educated guess at spring weights, not to sway you that the 8.4 i had laying in the garage will be ok :lol:
The info you have given me and being the same weight means i will hopefully only have to spend out once on the right spring. And at over $100 a throw, that is really helpful.

Now, if i lived near you, i could come and fix your roof while you do my suspension.
With that amount of snow, you need 6"x2" rafters instead of 4"x2" :lol:

Cheers, Nick

Chris wrote:

200-210lbs rider with gear 7.6 spring 35/100-107 rear sag HS 1.75 Comp 15, Reb 20 on Sunday worked a bit with the forks end up with 4 turns of extra preload over stock, Comp 18 Reb 22 which has stopped the bobbing feel and and given the me much more confidence in the steering, strangely it feels plusher too.(Trail: Hard dried out rutted clay with lots of broken rock and trash)
Went to the MX track for a bit of light jumping in the afternoon felt very good too. Some nice tyre marks on the muffler now, maybe it will need a spacer in the mount.

Well, i finally picked up a 7.6 spring off ebay, i spent so much on the bike, i couldnt afford a spring! Will be fitting this weekend.
I read on susp forum that 5/6mm preload on rear is best for pds.
Presuming that you have the right spring, what is the maximum preload you could go to without worrying ?

Cheers, Nick

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the update.
I have just fitted a 7.6, it seems to be close to the mark, 38/117, 8mm preload, wheel back in slots, 1/2 tank fuel, with gear.
You are right , its harder to get readings off this bike than any ive had before.
Forks are just within sags and dont bottom so i will do a couple of turns on preload and leave stock as they work really well.
I will increase rebound a couple of clicks in rear and see how it works.
Keep us updated, cheers, Nick