Rekluse clutches

Cheers Rob..I am at topcliffe so will grab petes bike for a scoot( I'll qualify it for him if you want :wink: )

taffy ...I have had a couple of decents outings on my rekluse without any clutch lever, just so I could adjust to not using one...I coverted the clutch to brake on Thursday and went out to 3 sisters on friday.....Using the handbrake was a revelation and really helped to get a controllable slide going. In the wet I'm sure it will be even better, where rear brake is needed more, its easier to sense pressures through you fingers.
But..... I did notice myself sometimes using the lever like a clutch..i:e pulling it hard in (its a natural reaction) which was sometimes daunting, and a couple of times whilst accelerating hard out of Lunar with pegs full on the deck I pulled the lever as if it was still the clutch on upshifts......heart stopping, trouser filling. Its a lot to think about whilst in the midst of a serious competition, but I wish you well

fitted the LHRB conversion today. got the pipe for £29 inc of VAT and P_P. ordered it 156cm long and perhaps another 4cm wouldn't do any harm otherwise it's nice in yellow. taken it up the left post of the frame keeping it carefully away from the 'zorst!

used synthetic (5.1) brake fluid and have a perfect brake. all i had to do was wipe out the m/c with paper towel, fill a syringe, reverse bleed upwards with my KTM needle and we're away! pulled the footbrake mechanism off completely.

things i'd change?

well if ordering thinner pipe you need something to make the pipe 'bigger' and fill-out the two s/a clips for a start.

secondly, you need a proper bolt into the top of the clutch slave unit. this unit isn't worth removing as you need to cover the end of the exposed gearbox and the gearbox sprocket cover has to bolt to something.

however i can see how a cute little anodised triangle would look neat there!

tomorrow, i test ride on the roads with a rekluse clutch, LHRB system AND trying out scoot's 41mm carb back-to-back with mine!

let ya know!

regards

Taffy

For blocking off the slave cylinder, I used a plastic 'top hat' that they use on brand new brake parts to block off holes in calipers etc. If you know any car technicians they usually have em knocking around

first ride on the roads tonight with two brakes on the bars! went fine except i wanted to stop real quick and locked up the rear wheel.

now then, this rekluse!

it's decided tonight to have zero gap between tickover and engaging which means it's stalling coz the clutch wants to hook up!

also the feed in is fairly slow and gentle at low revs and low gears.

most of all though i need a bigger gap twixt tickover and 'no-to-go'.

is this in the plates? all i've done is disconnected the hydraulic magura clutch?

regards

Taffy

I tried calling Rekluse for you but they dont answer the phone and their voice mail is full :?

Nah taff...from my understanding its in the spring rates and bearing combo.
If you pm Prosm, he is the UK importer for rekluse clutches and he will help you out no problems.(very helpful guys these rekluse lot)
FWIW.... mine seemed to change between 1st ride and 2nd ride

ok, so this took some balls i reckon!

i did a 4-lap enduro today in the old 'timecard style'. a report on it may appear later but i thought i'd put down the rekluse bits here.

i had left a message with rob the importer during the week and he got back to me on saturday a.m. saying that the new 1.5" wave springs are in the country and one is being sent to me. £5 to cover postage seems very fair.

meanwhile saturday evening at 10pm i'm still putting one of the washers on the wave spring and left it so late i daren't even start the bike. i started it in the paddock away from the start line and it stalled immediately. i thought things were going to go tits up.

but i fired it again and of i went. now to be absolutely clear here, my only experience of the auto clutch system is a days green laning in moab aboard bergers FE550e and a 1-mile blip here when all seemed spot on. alas when i checked scoots jetting on saturday a.m. all the adjustment had gone and the bike wanted to keep moving. finding neutral was impossible! that amounted to 1-hour of road riding but the point is; i had yet to ride on the limit and get confused etc.

well i rode quite well for the first two laps, found it difficult to get used to the fact that i normally use 1 and 2 and here i am using 2 and 3 gears all the time. this meant that the clutch was slipping out of corners and seemed fine.

you would normally rev the bike and get into trouble but this just glided up to corners, it seemed the same but in control. i started to get used to the LHB-RB and squeezed a bit harder but wasn't able to dive into corners all locked up and sideways because i would have got too tired.

i once got the bike stuck with a 1' log infront of the rear wheel. no problem, get off whilst on tickover, rev it and push and over she went! i did eventually get to the top of a climb ansd stalled it (hope fryguy isn't reading this!) otherwise it never stalled.

i hadn't noticed how much i rested my foot on the rear brake-it was no longer where i needed it! gearchnge was great as well.

at present though i can't clear it to get it into neutral. we'll see next weekend how it goes with the 1.5" wave spring also fitted.

i'll ask prosm here; "does the 1.5" wave spring also need it's own washer or should both springs run without?" also, there is now no need to have the shaft through the gearbox so i'll have that out sometime.

the clutch cylinder was adjusted like the clutch so there was no feel. i'm hoping that like the brembo, the magura will respond to the lever working nearer the bar and giving more feel. at least it's adjustable!

i found the best grip was with the index and thumb together whilst the middle, wedding and baby finger were over the brake lever all the time.

if bobzilla says anything about being 'extra strong' in the index/thumb area i shall kick his ass (or is that arse?)!!!!!

remember bob; your either a B.W. and F.T. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

on the third and last lap it really came into it's own, i was rushing in, making mistakes and getting all ends crossed up. bike just sat there at idle, in gear awaiting further instructions from numbnuts.

i like it, i think it's worth it, hope i get a neutral and freed-up clutch and then i hope to become pretty cool at locking it up into corners.

easier? no. more like just as hard in a different way but it just doesn't let you down. you'll let it down first!

regards

Taffy

Rob (prosm)...if the wave spring taff is on about helps..any chance you can bring one to Blyton for me please?

I am on the 4th set up on my 03 fe501e. I wont be making any further adjustment because its now perfect.

1) I original had the setup as recommended for ktm 520 (rekluse had yet released recommendations for bergs) ie 30 steel BB, 2.5inch wave spring. This gavetoo much slip and had to high a engagment point.

2) As above but added 6 Carbide balls:- This was very good would slip a little too much when cruising in high gears ie transport section. Extra slippage allowed you to get on gas earlier and more aggressively out of corners, and was allot of fun. 3rd gear racing starts were a sure thing.

3) Recommended setting were released for bergs:- So I tried reccomended setting of 15 Carbide BB, and 1.5in and 2.5 inch wave springs. This offered much more aggressive lock up and didn't allow enenoughlippage and would cause motor to load up if tried to exist corner in gear to high. I didn't like this setup as it just didn't give you clutch action when you wanted it.
4) 2.5 inch wave (no washers, no 1.5in wave), 10 Carbide BB. In the words of little red ridding "Just right"
This gives great positive lock up and enough slippage to easily tackle hills and corners in 1 to 2 gear higher than normal.

As for initial creep or drag, this is quite normal. Mine has alway had initial drag when cold. Best advise is to apply brakes and apply just a bit of throttle before clicking bike into gear. After being engaged for a couple of minutes drag will back of to almost unoticable.

As for finding neutral why bother, I find it impossible to find neutral whilst running on any berg. I now don't bother as bike will start very easy in gear and will take of in any of first 3 gear without a problem. As soon as moving just change down.

I have left clutch lever in place as you can uses this to get over initail drag when first engaging gears when cold. It is also great for saving fuel when your running on empty. Whilst at speed simple pull manual clutch in for couple of second and auto will disengage allowing bike to free roll, rolls like its in neutral you can then hit kill button and bike will continue to roll even though you are in gear with clutch lever out. When you need to fire up motor simple hit starter button and turn throttle. very quick and easy.

Cheers Horto

horto

i have to confess that i was getting depressed at the poor level of genuine structured feedback and then you come along and make my day!

i don't think there is any need for a bike not to have a free clutch at tickover. i had it on my first run and it's my intention to get it again.

i will take out the 1.2mm plate supplied by rekluse and go back to a standard one for next weekend. this will make the clearance .048" which i believe is the maximum. does this help create more space for the plates to free up? i hope so.

i think you meant a 2" wave spring and not 2.5" but i'm being pedantic here.

i have the factory's recommended 20-20 SS-tungsten ball bearings. i like the 'pick up' don't like the engagement point.

anyway, keep it going!

regards

Taffy

I am with Horto, why bother finding nuetral while running. I have never been able to find it consistantly on any berg while running anyways.
If you are going into the cover again you may want to try 15 carbide balls.

ok boys. i am pissed off at the way i've had to sort all this lot out.

over the last three evenings this week i've dropped the coolant, exhaust, sidecover, tank, seat, waterpump the usual in an attempt to get this running just how i like it.

we started with 2" wave spring cs200L2. that's what i had last weekend and i couldn't get neutral and the bike felt like it had a slush (re; auto) box with a slow engagement.

since then i've tried it with a washer which was just as bad.

then i had the 1.5" wave spring arrive-cs150L2. so i tried the two springs along with one washer under the 2" (cs200L2) wave spring. this gave a huge gap as the revs rose and then a 'bang' as it locked solid-which was awful.

then i changed out the only rekluse pressure plate and put a standard one back in which increased the gap out from the 'middling' .040" to the 'maximum' .048".

at the same time i went to the middle setting in the rekluse list so out came cs200L2 (tall) and in went the cs200L1 (short) as well as cs200L1 getting TWO washers this time. the 1.5" wave spring stayed-cs150L2.

that was it.

it doesn't disengage until late on the deceleration. it hooks as soon as you touch the throttle and even then it LOCKS instead of slipping. and to cap it all i can find neutral again!!

remember, i had neutral before i started all this so i knew that i could get it back if the rekluse was going to let me. just a reminder to all that a good clutch drum is vital to an easy neutral.

setting as of today is;

cs200L1 -short wave spring
1.5"-cs150L2 wave spring
2 x washers on the cs200L1
clutch pack is back to standard with a large gap of .048"
20 stainless steel & 20 tungsten ball bearings

warning; if you remove the rod through the gearbox, you must remove the central needle roller bearing and it's two washers otherwise i feel they may fall off the end. there is enough space. this only affects those that remove the manual clutch.

to finish, i've adjusted the magura LHRB so the lever comes right back. this will give more feel.

let you know after i've raced on sunday how it goes....

regards

Taffy

Taffy......
glad yours is sorted...mine is too now.
I took mine into DCR for a problem with something else and the tech (andy) said he would set up the clutch while he was fixing the other stuff. He said everyone he's done so far have been bob on......as it was free I couldnt say no
It transpires he has removed one of the rekluse steels and fitted a standard, he also used the spring which is fitted in the unit as boxed(sorry,dunno the numbers) and one washer, 20/20 for the ball combo.
I rode it yesterday, instant pick up, full engagement and neutral easy to get...I'm well chuffed

so gix, if i'd still been out there struggling the answer would have been the thingameejig, whatsisname that might have come with it, should fit!!!!

thanks for the help.

regards

Taffy

Dam!

after racing yesterday the bike is now creeping along in first gear on idle at a walking speed! i wonder which part has bedded itself in now!!!!

BTW it was pefic whilst racing.

i'm back to std pressure plates yet i bet my .048" gap has gone. how am i going to get that freewheel back?

Taffy

i've gone from the middle setting which was;
cs200L1 & cs150L2 + 2 washers

to the next highest stall speed which is a huge gap and not at all like they say "very near previous set up"

it is c200L2 +cs150L2 + 0 washers

nobody from rekluse has replied to my e-mail, nobody from rekluse UK has replied either.

bob, they're worse than BWs they're a bunch of FTs :evil: :evil: :evil:

cs200L1 & cs150L2 + 2 washers was the middle and perfect set up but i had too much drag in the paddock etc. no need for it and creates too much heat.

i may even have one of those rekluse 1.2mm plates scroll ground down to .8mm and fit it.

i still can't weigh up what each part does exactly from what i have changed. it seems to change the engagement point AND the take-up as well.

regards

Taffy

taff

phone Peter at Rekluse UK on 07979 360955, very helpful in setting up Gruntenbergs.

Now breathe..... :wink:

For those interested. My set up on my 04 FE 650 is as follows.
2 wave springs and no large spacers. 15 TC balls 15 steel balls. The bike will creep with the 20TC balls recommended.
I have a few pictures in my gallery of the springs.
With this set up I have good engagement at about 1800-2000 rpm and no creep at all.

Gents, just to add my 2p.....

We initially set up a 03 FE 650 as recommended in the bumphh supplied by Rekluse i.e. 2 springs with 20TC + 20 steel . We needed to add one Rekluse plate to get the gap to 0.035". This combo worked well but after a good hard half hour break-in the clutch required the replacement of another of the standard plates now making the gap at ).034" We also found that when the clutch was "loose" the engine stalled easily when jumping table tops etc.

The clutch has again had a good hard run (supermoto track) for a spell and seems to have settled down now although the rider advised it had loosened a little. Engagement is very good and no clutch drag/creep has been encountered so far (in both set-ups).

We do not seem to have encountered some of the problems you guys have suffered. The only thing that I can think of that I have done any differently is that the bosses were accurately milled rather than field down to the template as supplied. Logic says that this would'nt make a difference but thought I'd mention it anyway.

went back to the short spring and two washers today. same set-up as last sunday. difference was that i removed 5 tungsten balls and fitte 5 more steel ones. so it's 20/10 at present.

i got a shock when the bike revved and then went 'bang' as it engaged way too high in the revs. i got used to it and indeed enjoyed the mild but clear hook up after the second session.

i think i'm going to have the lugs on the drum machined flat for prefections sake and i'll go back a stage for earlier engagement and also may go to 18/12 and see how that goes!

regards

Taffy