Only 176kmh!! I blame the X1.

I was only gone for a week! :?:
Hi y'all, looks like a spot of controversy here so a few replies may be in order. :idea:

Berger look forwards to your independent, factual and insightful evaluation instead of the hyped up ******** some people spread around.

DezDuster- Do the KTM's have two overdrives in the six speed gearbox or are they just 5 speeds. I'm not hugely faster in a straight line than my mates xr400 (old cam) until I hit 6th, then I'm gone and he's topped out. See if you can find out the following ratios- primary drive ratio, top gear ratio and sprockets. My berg has the following.
Primary 29/78
6th gear 27/20 0.74:1 overdrive
final 13/50
All the revs in the world ain't worth nuthin if you ain't got the gears.

Taffy you old grump. I was bored so I thought ok lets see how full of s... I really am and I came up with the following figures.
176 km/h = 11340 rpm assuming a 1.98m circumferance tyre and no wheelspin.
Make it a 2.05m circumference and the revs drop to 10380.
My bike is in the shop but it has a half worn S12 90/140 on the back. If someone can measure the dia or circ i would be grateful. As to the feel I think I will need to up the front sprocket one tooth coz it feels too slow in fourth and way to fast in third. Stall resistance is still there and ****** riding is a pleasure with much more subtle low end control.

T-jet- refer to Dez and please remember it's just one blast my comments are judged on. I wasn't "trying to go fast", I just let the husaberg do what a husaberg does. If you own a berg you know what I'm talking about, if you don't then I'm just a wa....!

Bobzilla- you run a small rear sprocket. Apart from better fuel economy and engine longevity, why? Do you ride on the road a lot? what is it like in the snotty stuff, can you get slow enough?

jjw 501- GO THE BERG!!!

Simon- even cuckoo's have a purpose. They make pidgeons look good.

Thank you Dale. So there just may be an element of truth in my claims. It may not be a very big element tho.

Simon- a 650 would be the slowest revving engine husaberg make wouldn't it. what gearing were you running to get those figures?

Dale- thanks for the offer to do a speed check but you are a tad far away to be useful but your conversion of unaccurate bragging to useful fact is appreciated.

t-jet- you should be closer to 100mph

Powerfiend (I like that one), I went on Dale's recommendation of the X1 and have found the bike much happier. I know someone about to try an X2 in a 550 so stay tuned!

Thats about it for me. To say I was surprised when I clocked on would be an understatement but thank you to all who replied. 100 mph should be effortless on any berg. It's just not that useful.

Cheers Ice.

LINEAWEAVER said:

Hi Iceman,
Thank you for the feedback.
Happy to learn you are enjoying the camshaft.
Kindest Regards,
Dale

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Any time Dale and once again thanks.
Phil.

twistthethrottle said:

Wow, 176 km/h with only a 13 tooth front sprocket! I think you had better fit a rev limiter Phil. 8O

I take it you won't be needing my PHM 40?

Talk to you soon.

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I've only just had the cash to get "a" carby tuned so I sent the bike up with both carbs. They thought the original 38 would be better as the 40 is about 8mm longer and a real hassle to fit. I did try it out tho and the top end was fun. It just took ages to work the motor up throught the revs till it hit the main jet. As I know nothing about jets I've left that part to the experts but it now looks like a shot stator was causing all the missing and sputtering so we shall see. In answer to your question thank you but no I will stick with the standard carby and will be returning yours shortly.
Cheers Ice

Iceman,
I wasn't trying to be negative or incredulous or hold your statements in disdain. I was simply saying that 109MPH on a dirt road is fast!. At that speed you are going approx 160 feet/sec. and covering a lot of ground very quickly.
In my 30+ years of riding/racing I have never actually measured the top speed of any bike I have owned. Now I am motivated to do so due to your experience and posted observations. Your post was certainly informative as regards your opinion of the efficacy of the new camshaft. Thank you.
Additionally, my bike is not a KTM. Never owned one and never will. Its an Fe501 with an 97mm piston from Dale L. making it a 520. Also has Big Gun Exhaust, Dial-a-jet carb mod, and other small bits. I have 15 x 48 sprockets and the same 27/20 - 0,741 sixth gear that you have. My bike pulls these gears in sterling fashion. The engine is singing a beautiful song at full tilt in sixth, its just kinda hard to find enough room to stay there.
So, with my larger engine, higher gearing, and marked propensity toward mach speeds on Nevada's dry lake beds, I'm going to borrow Tut's GPS and make a land speed run out on Eldorado Dry Lake. If I don't warp into another dimension, I'll let you know the results.
Dez

LINEAWEAVER said:

Hi Simon,
In this business one must learn to read between the lines.

Barring the obvious instrument calibration error and all else remaining equal the jump to 176 KPH from 168 represents a near 5% increase in top speed. Not too shabby for an afternoons work.

Kind Regards,
Dale

Ps
Should the opportunity ever present itself:
I can perform honest speed runs as I own a Falcon police band radar gun and a GPS unit. I have used both instruments for several years to confirm proper high speed gear selections. Both have been tested @ Bonneville on a Rotax single.

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Hi Dale,

With all due respect, mathematically that increase might be true, well almost In real terms it becomes complete gobbledegook however, precisely because they are uncalibrated and therefore of questionable substance. I'm sure that you, more than most, will know if you start with junk, you'll end up with junk that shouldn't be relied upon.

Now, I have absolutely no doubt that your day in the office involves the creation of 400s that achieve in excess of 100mph. I was however questioning whether it is achievable with the standard gearbox ratios and 13/50 final drive - rough head estimates say more like mid, possibly top 80s.

Cheers,
Simon

iceman said:

Simon- a 650 would be the slowest revving engine husaberg make wouldn't it. what gearing were you running to get those figures?

Click to expand...

It was over 18 months ago now but the final drive gearing would have been around the 16/38 or 17/38 with the wide ratio gearbox. However, it's not the revs that count really, it's the relationship between gear ratios, power and wind resistance, especially at those speeds.

We have actually found in many cases that using the close ratio gearbox on the 650 is preferrable for top speed perfomance.

Cheers,
Simon

Come on now Simon,
You know as well as I that in the real world measurement with the same stick is more important than an actual number. I was simply stating that all else remaining equal an X1 camshaft (or any other modification which allows for an increase in high rpm breathing) will increase top speed as a result of the engine not running over the power hump.

My point being:
Not everyone has access to sophisticated instrumentation and besides, unless one is attempting an official speed record the actual number is of little value. However, how recorded numbers compare to a previously generated set of values obtained using the same instrumentation (crude or not) during like conditions is good information. Hence my earlier statement regarding reading in between the lines.

Respectfully
Dale

Just for fun:
Under ideal conditions our 46 HP 400 would hit the aerodynamic wall @ an official speed of 115 MPH.

Dale,

My comments were nothing more than playful banter! [1]

Very respectfully,
Simon

[1] here I am referring to the use of the "English" meaning of banter and NOT the colloquial Southern and Western US term where somehow it has been understood to mean challenge to a duel

Hi Simon,
As always your intelligence, keen insight and quick wit were well received. No offense was taken as my earlier reply was simply that for the sake of argument (ie playful banter).

Must remember those damn Emoticons.

Best Regards,
Dale

iceman said:

I've left that part to the experts but it now looks like a shot stator was causing all the missing and sputtering so we shall see.
Cheers Ice

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Phil, don't know if you saw this in the Electrical forum, it may help with your problem.

Stator Fix

LINEAWEAVER said:

Hi Simon,
As always your intelligence, keen insight and quick wit were well received. No offense was taken as my earlier reply was simply that for the sake of argument (ie playful banter).

Must remember those damn Emoticons.

Best Regards,
Dale

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You're ever the smooth diplomat Dale and I thank you!

My friends over here would have started their sentences something like "Now Simon, you're being a complete pain in the arse............" and then rapidly decending into many more "unpublishable" colloqiualisms!

I do enjoy having a good challenging discussion and especially, when in comparision to you, I am a complete technical incompetent!

It helps me learn, so again I thank you!

Cheers,
Simon

PS However, if in future, I'm being a pain, please feel welcome to tell me to shut the fook up! I won't be offended, I promise

DezDuster said:

Additionally, my bike is not a KTM. Never owned one and never will. Its an Fe501 with an 97mm piston from Dale L. making it a 520. 15x 48 sprockets and the same 27/20 - 0,741 sixth gear that you have. My bike pulls these gears in sterling fashion. The engine is singing a beautiful song at full tilt in sixth, its just kinda hard to find enough room to stay there.
So, with my larger engine, higher gearing, and marked propensity toward mach speeds on Nevada's dry lake beds, I'm going to borrow Tut's GPS and make a land speed run out on Eldorado Dry Lake. If I don't warp into another dimension, I'll let you know the results.
Dez

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My deepest and most humble apologies for bashing you with the ktm stick Your bike sounds fun and I will await with interest your reply from Eldorado lake.
At full song the husaberg is a beautiful sound isn't it?
They sound real happy, not flogging their guts out.
They tell me porsches are like this, they reward the driver.
And yes, never enough room. I first realized the top end when we went for a ride on the uncompleted hallam bypass (it was dirt then). Nice flat freeway ready to be tarred. About 7 km section and no speed cameras! Yehaa!!
Cheers Ice.

Simon said:

iceman said:

Simon- a 650 would be the slowest revving engine husaberg make wouldn't it. what gearing were you running to get those figures?

Click to expand...

It was over 18 months ago now but the final drive gearing would have been around the 16/38 or 17/38 with the wide ratio gearbox. However, it's not the revs that count really, it's the relationship between gear ratios, power and wind resistance, especially at those speeds.

We have actually found in many cases that using the close ratio gearbox on the 650 is preferrable for top speed perfomance.

Cheers,
Simon

Click to expand...

Thanks Simon, thats very tall gearing. I have trouble fitting anything bigger than a 15 tooth front sprocket on mine, it wants to chew holes in the swingarm!
With the cr box is the final drive higher or lower than normal?

Cheers Ice

If anybodys interested I got 90 mph on my stock 02 FC550 about 6000 rpm and still pulling when I shut it down. The speed was measured with GPS. I figure it's good for about 95 or so.

iceman said:

Thanks Simon, thats very tall gearing. I have trouble fitting anything bigger than a 15 tooth front sprocket on mine, it wants to chew holes in the swingarm!
With the cr box is the final drive higher or lower than normal?

Cheers Ice

Click to expand...

Hi Ice,

with the cr 6th gear is moderatly shorter than the wr:

27/20 for the wr
25/21 for the cr

Cheers,
Simon

I went out to the dry lake bed last Sunday to see how fast my old berg will go. I got three runs at 89 MPH with the best top speed at 89.7 MPH measured with a Garmin GPS.
This is a disappointing result, even though it is fairly irrelevant, but is not too far off of my seat-of -the-pants estimate of 95. The temperature when I got there at 11am was 109 degrees fehrenheit and increased to 115 by 1:30. The hot air certainly affected power and the bike labored at high speeds in sixth gear with the tall gearing (15x48) I think it might have done better with slightly lower gearing.
Anyway, there was nothing to prove and that is exactly what happened. I totally enjoyed wringing the crap out of the bike in high speed drifts around the edge of the lake and I wish that some of you guys could have been there for an impromptu Flat track type of fun race.
Now I'm going to change the gearing to 14x50, install a Michelin X-11 on the rear wheel and just go plunking around in some higher (cooler) altitudes.
Dez