OIL-recommendations

justin_yz426 said:

I disagree the second that motor starts the oil breaks down and losses it's protective value. Now with a full syntetic that was used for breakin in a car motor they still had the honeing marks at 200,000 miles. The oil is so much better. I dont run it in my truck though. The reason wjhy is i'm not keeping it that long. So it's not worth it. But for my bikes my mom's truck. Only mobil full syntetic.

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how do you figure that the oil breaks down the second that it starts? the difference between a synthetic and a petroleum based oil is how long it lasts before it breaks down. IMHO, in these modern bikes that only hold one liter of oil, the stuff is going to get dirty before it breaks down. so no matter what oil you use, its more important to change it often.

This is too,2,to,two much. Who came first the hooker or the john. No one is going to win this debate. My advise is CHANGE the oil often It aint worth the $$$ if you change it every ride to use full synthetic oil. BTW the only oil related failures my local dealer has seen were both using full synthetic oils. He thinks they ran them too long and when they broke down they were done.


P.S. I no I caint spel or have gooood gramr so leme slide on that please.

dave186 said:

justin_yz426 said:

I disagree the second that motor starts the oil breaks down and losses it's protective value. Now with a full syntetic that was used for breakin in a car motor they still had the honeing marks at 200,000 miles. The oil is so much better. I dont run it in my truck though. The reason wjhy is i'm not keeping it that long. So it's not worth it. But for my bikes my mom's truck. Only mobil full syntetic.

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how do you figure that the oil breaks down the second that it starts? the difference between a synthetic and a petroleum based oil is how long it lasts before it breaks down. IMHO, in these modern bikes that only hold one liter of oil, the stuff is going to get dirty before it breaks down. so no matter what oil you use, its more important to change it often.

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It dose. A full synthetic oil molecules just get smaller and smaller that is why they leak buy the gasketts when they get old. But they still maintain the protection as if they are new. Also why there not recomended for high milage vehicles. Now a conventional oil is natural so to say. It starts to break down instantly. Thats why you loose protection. As it gets older. You still have alot of protection, but it is continuislly getting weaker and protecting less and less.

Lets see. I have a 87 Toyota Corolla with 150000 miles on it. I change the oil in it once a year whether it needs it or not, using regular old $1.19/qt motor oil and the car runs great. But I cant put the same oil in my Bike and run it for 2-3 hours between changes?

No - you can. Hell, you can run it in till it turns to sludge. What i'm saying is the oil starts to break down imeditly when the motor is running. Now it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. Full synthetic never breaks down. If you were to compare it in boxing. The regualr oil would get hit once and loose some of it's abilty to sustain the hit's. Eventuly getting knocked out. Now the full synthetic would get hit and be just the same excepet it got smaller from the punches. Do you understand now?

justin_yz426 said:

Full synthetic never breaks down.

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:roll:

Where is Dale when you need him.....?

dave186 said:

justin_yz426 said:

Full synthetic never breaks down.

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:roll:

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It dosent, the molecules get smaller. :twisted:

Molecules that shrink, metals that automatically bend back when heat is applied and oils that last forever? It all sounds like sceince fiction to me. But heah Im just a regular Joe... I am neither a chemist or physicist but Justin, Im not buying your reasoning....

Now the ti metal i'm not sure of but the oil is absoulotly correct. Why do you think that the gaskets get wet and oil residue appears on the out side of the motor. The reason why you change a full synthetic is because it gets dirty. I know this is correct because I went through a training course.

Straight from Mobil's website:

Why Synthetics Are Better


First of all, the performance of Mobil 1 with SuperSynâ„¢ is more robust, especially in terms of low-temperature pumping and flow. High-temperature stability and protection against deposits are also superior. These attributes translate directly into less engine wear and longer engine life.

Historically, conventional oils lack the performance of synthetic oils in the areas of low-temperature performance and high-temperature oxidation stability. Conventional oils also contain much greater amounts of impurities, such as sulphur, reactive and unstable hydrocarbons, and other undesirable contaminants that cannot be completely removed by conventional refining of crude oils.

Synthetic motor oils are designed to perform even under severe conditions, such as very cold starting temperatures, extreme high-temperature operations and high-load conditions.

Mobil 1® with SuperSyn™ provides significant advantages over conventional motor oils, including:


Superior protection under heavy engine loads/stresses, such as hauling and towing.
Minimizing oil degradation.
Faster lubrication at start-up in low temperatures.
Superior protection at high temperatures.
Superior resistance to thermal breakdown.
Greater resistance to oil oxidation (thickening).

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I cant find any information that says synthetic oil doesnt break down. I wouldnt run an oil that caused my motor to leak either. The only schmucks that say to extend the drain intervals with synthetic oil is AMSOIL. Those guys must have a herd of anacondas out back.

Yea I dont belive in etending the itervals either. But that is why when you put a full synthetic oil in a highmilage vehicle that did'nt leak it leaks. Now it dosent leak out the gaskets it gets a lillte oil residu. You cant feel it but you can see the color diffrence. On the metal. There is no diffrence in oil levels when this happens.

550FCman said:

Where is Dale when you need him.....?

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I am watching from afar

hi;
we all have our own opinions. we all have our own reasons. we all have our own evidence. that makes for a discussion. but why does it have to turn to this direction? it doesn't help anyone and actually hurts the purpose of this site, in my opinion.
tuts

All oils,whether ester,vegetable,or petroleum
based have improved over the years due to
constant improvement and development.Synthetic
additives are constantly being tested and developed.
Molecules don't shrink.They deteriorate as various atoms
in their makeup become unbonded.Just as H20 splits
into Hydrogen and oxygen under heat.All oils break down,
just as any carbon based molecule does.The key is to
minimise this breakdown.Usally the larger companies with
the most research budgets will develope the best products.

When I was in Engineering school I became interested in oil issues and after much research and visiting with Petroleum Engineers I came to the following conclusions......Synthetics are more temperature stable. I doubt the cold pour specs are of too much importance to Husaberg riders, but the high temp. oxidation and lubrication failure temps are. Due to the large displacement, small oil capacity, high state of tune, and low mass of the engine to dissipate heat they do run hot. The old ones tended to have stator problems under severe riding conditions due to heat. The fix was to move the stator outboard, but the engine still runs hot.
The other advantage of synthetics also is related to temp issues. A multigrade oil has to behave like a 10 wt when cold and a 50 wt when hot. These specs are based on flow rates. How do they accomplish this? With modern additive called polymers. Due to the temp stability of synthetics, the polymer content is around 5% where petroleum oils need around 12%.
A polymer can be thought of as a spider so to speak. When cold the legs are wrapped up tight around the body, and when hot the legs extend to intertwine with the others to thicken the oil. Why is a high percentage of polymers bad? Because they are a poor lubricant and they do not survive well running through transmission gears. The legs are sheared off and after a while they don't do the job. Your 10-50 will test as a 10-25.
In conclusion, I do run Mobile 1 15-50 in my Husabergs, but my cars with a separate trans. and mild state of tune see standard Kendall oil. I change them all regularly. 10 hours on the Berg and 3000 miles on the car. Not saying this is right for everyone just hope this helps.
Dan

Oil, the great debate

Maybe we should have a poll on who uses what oil
to make things easier for us novice users.

I'm in the uk, and don't think I can get hold of delo 400

I meant to mention the use of Diesel oils such as Delo 400, but there are other 15-40 Diesel oils that are similar. I think the guys that recomend the diesel oils understand that additives such as zinc phosphate and moly protect your engine under extreme conditions when the oil is at it's end. This is important to high scuff engine parts such as the camshaft. Automotive oils have low zinc contents due to the heavy metals fouling our catalytic converters. Diesel oils don't have this concern. A 15-40 Diesel oil is a good bang for the buck if the synthetics seem too high priced and I do use them in my Norton and Moto Guzzi.

Amsoil only reccomends extended intervals with their oil when their filtering system is utilized. If I am not wrong, their filtering system is basically a high bypass system that is used in conjunction with a vehicles regular filtering system.

By the way, I use DELO (Diesel Engine Lubricating Oil) in my diesel pick up, and have been using MOTUL 15W-50 in my berg. The berg is currently being torn down and rebuilt. So I'll let you guys know if there is any oil related problems.

It's too bad all the old forums are gone b/c there was some great stuff put in there about Delo oil by Dale Lineaweaver. He reccomended the Delo oil as it was similar to an oil that he blended for racing teams, and I'm assuming his own.

Since I change my oil after every ride anyway, I will be going to Delo when I get my motor back. The MOTUL had been good, but I kind of think that I've been wasting a bit of dough using it.

A good friend of mine attended a Chevron oil class some years back for work and what he was told was pretty amazing, wish I could remember all that stuff. I fully intend to take one of these classes should one become available to me. Anyway, the basic jist was that modern motor oils are all pretty darn good.

That being said - "all modern motor oils are pretty darn good" I have few friends who ride A LOT, and a friend who is a bike mechanic who said that if you follow a good oil change schedule and maintain your bike well, the only thing you should be really looking for in an oil is how your bikes clutch and tranny work with it. they say that every make and size of bike is different and you can experiment with many oils until you find one that fits your driving style.

I am not anywhere c;ose to being a knowledgeable person in this area i just thought that people might want to discuss this aspect of oil in relation to the berg.

I belive that Dale had gone into this prior to the death and resurrection of UHE

Jared