late 650 35mm big end pin crank p/n

megakurt said:

Gentlemen,

Trying to put together a strong bottom end for roadracing. I have a 2005 FS650C with under 300 miles on it, including 90 miles on a 3 mile road course. The quick version to my troubles is the inner oil filter cap o-ring sheared when the previous owner installed it. A 3/4" (1.8cm) piece of the o-ring was found in the oil hole to the crank. After replacing filter, o-rings, and oil and going for a test ride for 15-20 miles, there was no metal on the drainplug magnet-- went roadracing-- and now need new crank, cylinder, piston, etc...

My Husaberg dealer put me in touch with a US Husaberg person who said he knew nothing of an upgraded crank (in 2006 from 32 to 35mm big end pin: as in the Owner's Doc! Model year change section).

Does anyone have a part number for the alleged upgraded crank? Thank you!!!

Click to expand...

the number you require is 82030018100 and according to my '07 engine manual the crank came out in '05?????

i have a pin and rod i might let go for a bit less and also a 650 engine parts manual.

there is a chance that the oil filter ring was swollen from petrol in the engine. this makes it swell to 120% and then folkk try and re-use it and it gets chopped up putting it back. i don't think people are natural 'thugs' in this area.

http://www.husaberg.org/index.php?name= ... &start=345

you'll see above a massive thread on how we strengthen the bottom ends. the last two columns (as we speak!!!) JBS gives a great insight into what he believes is the strongest engine. he uses them for world sidecarcross racing.

we have a resident RR in Dr_C so go look at his gallery and PM him. also look at micksmith gallery for photos and neat ideas. there is also a great website in the UK called 'supermono' ok?

regards

Taffy

RE: Re: late 650 35mm big end pin crank p/n

I thought the 35mm pin came out in 05 too as it coincided with the shorter stroke crank.

I don't think your problem came from a weakness. Clearly the rubber stopped oil getting to the big-end which in turn resulted in the rest getting munched a little later down the road. It happened to me once and it failed in sixth gear on a wide open straight. In my case the big-end actually welded itself into a single lump :lol:

All the best,
Simon

RE: Re: late 650 35mm big end pin crank p/n

he needs to build the best engine he can and do it before he has trouble! look at the JBS racing website. that could be an eye opener as well. go to at least the set-up thomas recommends, measure and check everything!

regards

Taffy

surely with your bike being a 2005 you have the later crank yourself, no?

i'm going to break a rule here:

"faired" is the word you wanted.

and if you try and convert me to winningest i shall come over there and wedge the oxford concise where the sun don't shine!!!! :twisted: :twisted:

JBS aren't always getting it right. last weekend their top rider failed to enter the races and i believe he had two engines to choose from!

what i'll say is this. if you ever have to lower the red line other than because you have a longer stroke then you are going backwards. if it can't be revved then it ain't - well you know the rest.

the legendary california hot rod circa 1976 was only an 864cc? which was the std bore size.

regards the doc:
we're only as good as the man who supplies the info!

regards

Taffy

i have got to see a photo of this bike. please put it up here or email me it!

i did a thread just 10-14 days ago saying that i thought the 650 was about to hit full CFS and they'll be begging for them now they stopped making them. they will go up in value!

anyway, that was another subject!

by the way, to gauge the correct red line you need to work out when the engine is doing 4,000 to 4,250 rpm per minute. you should be able find a formula by googling because the rule is the same for the cars etc. don't forget there is no point revving forever when the bike is past its useful power curve. but that should help you.

25 years ago for me it was 4,000ft per min in my RR days and on a 58mm stroke pantah i had a redline of 11,000rpm. your stroke is about 80mm.

here is the formula i have. as a septic tank you'll just love the feet and inches (fairly close to my heart too!)

piston speed = S x rpm x 0.166 feet per minute

where S = the stroke measured in inches.
80mm = 3.1496".
82mm = 3.2284"
84mm = 3.3071"

it's worth pointing out to you that the old 650 had a stroke of 82mm while the 600 PRIOR TO '01 HAD A STROKE OF 84MM AND WAS A PORK CHOP CRANK!

remember though that no oil fed the big end- it was splash feed only. the good news is that it had a tapered crank on the left as well as the right but no woodruff key!

the key was further 'in' on the crank and the timing sprocket ran on this and of course on a woodruff key to get the valve timing right. i would try and blag a crank for assessment if you can. 84mm stroke? mmmmmm nice!

perhaps call lineaweaver about this. oh maybe not? the big end on the 400/501 was 30mm and way too small so even at whatever 30/32mm i think it would die. forget i mentioned it.....

weld the crank = yep! but only renew the pin 3 times or when its too easy. i need figures on "too easy". i'll get them ONE day!

the slipper will help the big end last longer according to thomas who we should all tip our caps too for the info....

if you did the slipper you don't need the cush driven rear wheel. if you have only the cush you MAY save the big end!

get yourself a revcounter and gear accordingly. 4 & 2/3 teeth is too much in one go and never mind the theory its the wind resistance that will stop you!

i used to gear onto the back straight quite often and even deliberately lose top if i thought it would help.

regards

Taffy

just as an example if we take the 80mm stroke and try 8,000 revs and see how fast that piston is moving we see that 80mm = 3.1496"

3.1496 x 8,000rpm x 0.166 = 4,183. the piston is doing 4,183ft per min. i'd say that that was enough! so 8,000 revs per minute should be your redline and the max power should be about 500rpm below it i would suggest. you can also try and develop a 300-500 rpm over rev.


the 82mm crank translates to 3.2284"

so 3.2844" x 7,750rpm x 0.166 = 4,225 ft per min which again i suggest is enough!

the 400 crank has a stroke of 60.1mm which is 2.366"

2.366" x 10,750 x 0.166 = 4,222ft per min

the dducati twins rev a lot higher than this but this was where bikes were about 10 years ago.

regards

Taffy

I have a few things to say but I don't really have the time right now so I'll just add a couple of items which I hope will be useful.

1. Max revs - this is really an entirely academic issue as I haven't met anyone yet that is able to modify these engines to produce max power at the rev ceiling. You can, if you want to go to 10k rpm or above. In 2001 we were using the 400 coil to get 9,800rpm. However, we never got useful power beyond about 8,300, 8,500 so if you're tuning you're better off looking to improve things there and then you're giving the engine an easier time anyway.

When I was racing the best way in which I achieved extremely good reliability was by modifying my riding style to go with the engine and use it where it's best!

2. The part numbers which I can identify are 82030018100 for the 05- crankshaft and 82030018000 for the 04 crank - you must therefore have the later crank.

I think the Husaberg engine is a great engine to roadrace - it just needs a good eye keeping on it.

Hope this helps,
Simon

megakurt said:

I believe there are no differences in the FE and FS motors, right?

Click to expand...

Only minor peripherals like jetting and silencer and once upon a time, some used to have a close ratio 6th gear instead of wide for the FE but I think they stopped that in 04 - worth double checking.

megakurt said:

Just a sidebar: I'm racing the bike setup as a super moto, not a supermono-- even though riding is knee-down, roadracer style.

Click to expand...

I assumed as much :wink:

megakurt said:

Again, thank you.
Kurt

Click to expand...

You're welcome.

Simon

Simon said:

I have a few things to say but I don't really have the time right now so I'll just add a couple of items which I hope will be useful.

1. Max revs - this is really an entirely academic issue as I haven't met anyone yet that is able to modify these engines to produce max power at the rev ceiling. You can, if you want to go to 10k rpm or above. In 2001 we were using the 400 coil to get 9,800rpm. However, we never got useful power beyond about 8,300, 8,500 so if you're tuning you're better off looking to improve things there and then you're giving the engine an easier time anyway.

When I was racing the best way in which I achieved extremely good reliability was by modifying my riding style to go with the engine and use it where it's best!

2. The part numbers which I can identify are 82030018100 for the 05- crankshaft and 82030018000 for the 04 crank - you must therefore have the later crank.

I think the Husaberg engine is a great engine to roadrace - it just needs a good eye keeping on it.

Hope this helps,
Simon

Click to expand...

Hi
We use the 644cc crank most of the time and this weekend we had a test at the race track with a engine config: 40/34mm TI valves, MX comp rod, welded and lighted crank, 43,8mm FCR carb, OEM camshaft 0.8, 82mm stroke and Elko piston, Modified timing curve and the rev limit set to 10200rpm. some port job in the intake and exaust outlet.
SR-Racing exaust system.
On the dyno we had 74,5RWHP at 8700 but it was still pulling hard onthe track up to rev limit, which was cutting off on the 3 first gears.
Next weekend we will try the 105mm bore from Ben Ballard with the same config except that we will use the 80mm stroke to start with.

But still the restriction in a good power output in the higher rpm range is the carb, its to small for a 650.

Anyway its a great engine for racing on asphalt. And it did´nt self destruct this time either.
//Thomas

quite hoestly, you are more likely to retire on a std untouched bike. you have to tender your garden sir!

you've got to do everything you can think of before you race them and it's only when they break that you learn you didn't do enough.

i'm afraid that no news is good news and if anyone ever asks at the end of your career: "how close did your engines come to breaking?" and you reply: "i'll never know....".

regards

Taffy