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I hate working blind on stuff I don't know about

Ill look for skinnier pic tools thanks

some McQiver solutions I'm considering to extract the pencil stub:

hemostats

a sewing needle attached to something. Insert and stick the #2 pencil and extract it.

a letter opener sharpened to a needle point

a letter opener with double tacky tape.

a long eraser..........with gum on the end.

some long skinny wad of tacky tape.

pour gas in and float it out

break it into smaller pieces, pour gas in or water like flood the exhaust flood the whole bike and do the side lay over pump the bike out routine, turn bike up side down or on its side and pump with kick starter.......only if peices are small. - naw

I like hemostats the best of above......trying to get a pair
 
I didn't know whether to laugh (with you) or cry for you but one thing for sure --you proved you're human and not afraid to admit you made a testicle of yourself. Most of us would be too embarrased to admit such a I Hate Myself moment so my hats off to ya. We have all watched ourselves completely blow it with the upmost amazement of such total bafoonery. It's all in how ya handle it is whether the outcome is life shattering and destructive or humorous and positive. That power is within all of us and if ya look back at all theI Wish I Could Turn Back The Clock Moments they all seem to turn out ok and none of which were ever that important to even get upset at all. I have blown it so many times myself but only cause I am out there trying at least. My last blunder that comes to mind is my $7000.00 investment in cabinet manufacturing software that was supposed to make my job easier but after 3 months learning the program I used it on a large cherry set of cabinets ($52,000.00) worth and didn't set the parameters correctly and ended up spending 6 weeks building ALL the cabinets mirror imaged and did not realize even before I spent 5 days spraying high tech coversion varnish. Ya know I didn't even thow a hammer or cuss or even yell at the ole' lady. I didn't even get that horrible gut wrenching feeling (too many mistakes under my belt). All ya can do is go to plan B and turn it somehow into something positive. I am sure once you get in there and take all the advice you'll be fine --By the way, thanks to all for the new guy welcome and all the response on my intro post. I should pick up my '05 450 fe
before years end. Hang in there Big Bob and Happy Holidays to all.
 
sure thing Cota, enjoy the new bike, give us a ride report............and keep all pencils away from the new steed.

:signduh: :hathat25: :stoopyd: :sign3: :sign6: :pottytrain5:
 
BB

i don't wanna piss down ya back and tell ya it's running but the tool that JoeUSA gave you pics of is the busiuness and most of your neighbours with a half decent tool kit will have included one.

it will not let you down fella and before you ask NO small bits of wood will NOT damage the engine. indeed if it were me i would just start the bike up.... but i did say "if it was me".

regards

Taffy
 
I bought a pic tool last night it was too fat to get in and grab the pencil and get out again. I will shop for a thinner pic tool today
 
first of all, let's stay away from anything that is gonna make it worse.

The sewing needle attached to "something" not a good idea, you could loose the needle in the cylinder.

I wouldn't use anything that can get "lost" in the cylinder.

DO NOT break the pencil piece apart.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PULL THE PIECE OUT THROUGH THE EXHAUST OR INTAKE VALVES.

How about using a plastic straw or something similar with a piece of two sided tape, or simply a piece of electrical tape truned back on itself securely attached to the straw. It may take several attempts to get it pointed in the right direction, and with extremely careful use of a wrench on the crank nut of the flywheel, you should be able to stand the piece up and slowly raise the piston to lift the piece out of the cylinder through the spark plug hole. BE SURE AND USE A WRENCH AND NOT A RATCHET SO THE CRANK CAN'T SPIN FREELY ON YOU. USE LOT'S OF PATIENCE, DON'T PANIC, I REPEAT DON'T PANIC. IF NECESSARY REPEAT HINDU CHANT....OOOOOHHMMMMM SHAVIA NUMEROUS TIMES. IF YOU FEEL YOURSELF GETTING PISSED OR GETTING IN A HURRY GO AND WATCH AN EPISODE OF SCOOBY DOO. THEN RETURN TO YOUR TASK. OR HAVE A FRIEND WITH NO EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT WHO IS "GOOD WITH TOOLS" COME OVER AND HELP YOU OUT.
 
I agree, don't make it worse, no attached needle thing

preference is no metal or at least a TALL solid thing that won't fall in.

yes talking with my stepdad a tacky tape thing is a nice try

the real problem will be not letting the pencil stub fall over sideways as I back the piston down. once that pencil stub falls flat inside that cylinder I'm doomed. I need to grap the pencil with a grab tool or a double sided tape implement and then back the piston down to unbind the pencil and extract it out.

see I am a good conceptual engineer but a loser hands on engineer. I am better at pushing pencils rather then checking valves on a motorbike
 
Another vote for starting it up and letting the engine process the wood. I guess it is easier to say when it is someone else's deal, but I think it would be ground up and out the exhaust in a matter of seconds.
 
Re:Rolling The Dice

Johnf3 said:
Another vote for starting it up and letting the engine process the wood. I guess it is easier to say when it is someone else's deal, but I think it would be ground up and out the exhaust in a matter of seconds.
Click to expand...

Word to the wise:
Should a portion of the soft pencil find its way between a valve and seat the piston is likely to strike said valve bending it.

Dale
 
When the pencil got snapped off, were you on the compression stroke so it is simply wedged in place between the plug hole and cylinder or was it on the exhaust stroke and the pencil is clamped between the valve and seat? If clamped in, rotate the engine backwards so it falls out. Believe Dale, don't turn it forward with force or you may bend the valve when the piston comes up and gives it a whack. If wedged make a right angle tool from a welding rod or the likes and pry it loose. After it is loose position the piston close to the top and fish around with a wire til you can see the offending pencil on top of the piston. Get some nasty sticky wheel bearing greese and stick a blob on a vaccum line and stick it onto the pencil. After a few tries you might get lucky. Well, thats how I removed an object for a customer back in my younger days (was an air filter retaining bolt). Good luck and on the brite side thank your stars the newer bergs have a 12mm plug instead of the old 10mm. :)
dan
 
Cota said:
ALL the cabinets mirror imaged and did not realize even before I spent 5 days spraying high tech coversion varnish.
Click to expand...

Cota:

Please let me know if you still have these cabinets, it sounds like they'd fit perfectly in the kitchen that I mistakenly built inside-out. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers,

Brett Saunders

p.s. - best of luck with your new bike.
 
Johnf3 said:
Another vote for starting it up and letting the engine process the wood. I guess it is easier to say when it is someone else's deal, but I think it would be ground up and out the exhaust in a matter of seconds.
Click to expand...

You're from Texas hm?

I bet if we were all in his garage we still could not get over arguing about the right method until someone shoots in the air.
 
LeFrog said:
Johnf3 said:
Another vote for starting it up and letting the engine process the wood. I guess it is easier to say when it is someone else's deal, but I think it would be ground up and out the exhaust in a matter of seconds.
Click to expand...

You're from Texas hm?

I bet if we were all in his garage we still could not get over arguing about the right method until someone shoots in the air.
Click to expand...

Frog,
That's what makes all this entertaining. Heck, I don't even own any type of firearm.
 
Report:

shopped 5 stores, bought $80-$120 worth of stuff from mirrors to lights to pic and crab tools, to magnifying glasses, to wire, to rods, to all sorts of implements, double tape, etc.

Got home drained the motor oil. Look in saw pencil at same semi vertical wedged position. decided to use gravity as my friend, turned bike upside down. best buy was the long flex neck pen light from Radio shack. I could see real good with that bright little light down in the hole.

unfortunatle turning the bike on its head must have jarred the pencil loose. Upon my first inspection now looking up into the hole. I see the pencil off to the side laying flat and I guess it was stuck to the top of the piston as gravity should have let it fall.

I then proceeded to use all tools, pic and grab extractor, tape on zip tie tape on wire, dental pic.......all .no good, no can get pencil to move, in fact pencil has moved out of sight.

down to burn it out or head removal, so I started to use the kick starter to turn over the motor, hoping to move that pencil around or break it up. I even blocked up the rear of the bike more so cylinder was straight up and down to use gravity as my friend. Worked kick starter many many times.

Found one small shred of yellow pencil fell out. no sign of more. Turned the bike right side up worked kick starter no sign of pencil parts. at this point I assume the pencil is still in there in smaller peices maybe.

I have started to check my valves. still can't tell TDC, trying to learn, watching valve springs and lobes intently. I think I got the intake valves closed........they had some play was able to get a 0.004 feeler gage clearly under those two intake things.....need to look at my parts manual......I need to learn this stuff.

cant figure the exhaust valves yet.....I'm gonna stay up all night and make sure I understand and can adjust my valves..........

questions:

1.) please which side of the bike has the ingition cover that i take off to use the spanner to move the pistion? ist it the rear brake pedal side?

2.)if the valves are closed is that when you check em?

3) now the $64,000 question: do I reassemble bike, oil it and fuel it and start the motor and hope to burn out the pencil? or do I do the safe move and haul the bike to Dan and have his guy next week pull the head to remove any debris? yes i am worried about what Dale said,,,if said pencil is in there and I'm sure it is, cause nothing but a small part fell out, what if as the bike starts the pencil is not consummed but flys into an exhaust valve , the valve closes on the pencil and it freaks out , damageing the valve head, seat etc,.......all that could happen in a blink of an eye..........
 
Taffy said:
start it up. you'll be fine!

regards

taffy
Click to expand...

"Like driving over broken glass"

Chances are such will not give you a flat, however, the possibility does exist. :?
 

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