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generator / regulator wattage output

S

SteveS

Joined Feb 2007
49 Posts | 0+
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
The manual indicates the 05 fe550 has a 150W generator. Does anyone know if that is the rating for the AC output from the generator or the DC output from the regulator.

I suspect the 150W rating is the AC generator output. If this is true, anyone know the wattage rating of the regulator?

I find the headlight too dim. I am thinking about installing a brighter headlight bulb. To help compensate / save a little power, I am also thinking about installing one of those 3 Watt Luxeon LED tail/brake lights.

I would also like to install heated grips (me digits are starting to get a little cool these days). I am just wondering how much power do I have to work with to try light up all these accesories?

I assume generator power output increases with RPM. Anyone have any graphs showing wattage vs RPM? What kind of wattage can I get out of the old girl at idle versus cruising versus wide open?

Any input appreciated
 
SteveS
kokosans claimed output is as accurate as the scales that weighs japanese dirt bikes
you have approx. 90W AC and 25W DC it is possible to run some led lights on AC
they don't seem to last as long as if they had DC a led bulb once a year is not big problem
you can run a 45W bulb with heated grips 35W if you are going to use the head light
with heated grips on hi that will make head light dim during low rpm so you would most
likely be more happy with 35W bulb since it will be brighter at low rpm if you want more output rewound or high output stator is the only way to go
the msr elephant ear soft hand guards is a nice addition to the heated grips since you
can use thin cloves even below freezing

happy trails VIKING
 
I am working on a simple PWM controller (555 timer and mosfet) for the grips to reduce power consumption but it would have to be run from DC. I am also looking at mounting the heated grips temporarily on the outside of the grip, more isolated from the bar and closer to the glove, to reduce power requirements. I was hoping to run the LED taillight on DC as well.

90WAC and 25WDC is not a lot of "extra" power. Any idea what the power rating is for a high output stator? I assume a higher output regulator is also available as a kit. I will start searching for some more info. In the meantime, any suggestions where I can get a HO stator / regulator?

I'll keep digging. Thanks for the info.
 
Hey Viking, A quick search and I see you have answered these questions before.

I will look into the Trail tech, Moose, and Electrex stators. Thanks
 
Aaah, the good ole 555....

Steve, I think there are plenty of kits for sale here and there. Do you make your own PCBs?

This one looks easy and this guy has plenty of interesting plans.
 
SteveS
PWM to control heat output I like that, now I don't think it would be different when
you run the heaters on high but in a low setting it most likely be a big difference
the grip heaters take 36W on high and 30W on low with a 2 ohms resistor and that
resistor gets hot that is waste of available power
boysen makes this clutch side grip that can rotate a bit this is to reduce arm pump
but the tube is made of plastic so it would reduce heat heat transfer into the handle
bar and that would be equal to that of throttle side, I have my grip heater directly to aluminum and it is hard tell a difference between the two hands
the stator thats in your bike is the same as in ktm rfs I have in my bike a rewound
stator from trail tech with floated ground it puts out 140/ 150 W but you can not use all
of that, realistically you can only use 110/120 W I don't at what rpm these other produces
the max output but it needs to low for it to be effective

so long VIKING
 
I recommend using AC and diodes to control hi/low of the heaters.
For the high diodes by passed and for the low one of the diodes passing positive side of sine wave to the on of the heater (left)
and negative side of the sine wave to other (right). This way you can lose the resistor.
Adjustment is 1/1 and 1/4 but there is no loss.

As an extra benefit regulator/rectifier is not loaded with grip heater current - those heaters don´t mind if you´re using AC or DC.

Hessu
 
My two cents,

What most have done with the Kokusan is to float the ground, and replace the stock reg/rectifier with a "heavy duty" type. However, it was my understanding this was done to be able to get full output from both alternator outputs in parallel and take that output to the battery. This is the main solution to people who have installed the KTM rad fan and having the battery go flat while you are riding.

This means you run everything off of DC. I have not checked into the companies mentioned but I do know that Baja designs does stator rewinds and upgrades for higher outputs for the kokusan. And it is quite possible that our own member "sparks" does them as well, although I know that his specialty, at least here is with sem's.

Another way to get more light, and lower the power consumption is to go with an HID head light set up. These lights typically require about 25% less power than a regular Halogen. IE With a HID it only takes about 63 watt's to get the same amount of light you would get with a 250 watt Halogen. Baja designs makes a set up called the Diablo that I know of at least a few people have installed and are happy with. Heck Cheeseberger raced Baja solo this headlight as his primary light.

But, the biggest advantage of floating the ground and running all outputs to the battery and running your lighting off of the battery is that "oh crap" moment at night won't turn into sheer terror, b/c when you stab the rear brake and the motor stops the light stays on, whereas the with stock set up, as soon as you stop the motor the lights go out!
 
Steve,
Don't do the Luxeon LED tail light unless you convert to all DC power. The Luxeon LEDs are very bright (WAY brighter than conventional led), and do not draw much current, but the won't take AC. I tried and the experiment lasted all of 15 minutes before it failed.

For those that don't want to do the work to float the ground on their own stator to get 100% DC, Trailtech now has DC-converted stators in stock to ship, no core necessary, so you won't have any downtime.

I recently converted my KTM 950 Adventure to HID lighting, and now I want HID on everything. I need to convert my Berg to DC so I can pursue an HID set up on it as well. May just go the Trailtech route out of convenience, plus I'll still have the stock stator as well.
 
I have some of the PWM grip controllers wired up. I will post pics / details when I get a chance to test a little further.

Headlight is dimmer than other bergs around. I am getting weird readings from the stator. I haven't figured out if it is stator or regulator / rectifier. Everything (including headlight) was wired to the DC reg/rect and I am suspicious this may have caused some of the problem, not sure though?

I was thinking about trying to float the ground on the stator and converting to the heavier reg/rectifier. Although, now I am thinking pretty hard about the trail tech stator and regulator/rectifier. They claim ~100W DC at idle.

Then I will definitely go with the Luxeon LED tail light and LED signals as well. Stay tuned.
 
SteveS said:
I have some of the PWM grip controllers wired up. I will post pics / details when I get a chance to test a little further.

Headlight is dimmer than other bergs around. I am getting weird readings from the stator. I haven't figured out if it is stator or regulator / rectifier. Everything (including headlight) was wired to the DC reg/rect and I am suspicious this may have caused some of the problem, not sure though?

I was thinking about trying to float the ground on the stator and converting to the heavier reg/rectifier. Although, now I am thinking pretty hard about the trail tech stator and regulator/rectifier. They claim ~100W DC at idle.

Then I will definitely go with the Luxeon LED tail light and LED signals as well. Stay tuned.
Click to expand...

Be careful dude, the DC output to the battery is only like 25 watts, better check the total load on the white wire going to the reg/rectifier as I believe that this is the feed to the battery charger, and the yellow is the feed to the lighting ckt and is just regulated AC.

Maybe I have misunderstood what is happening here, but, I just don't want to see you burn something up.
 
According to the schematics, the yellow and white AC both power the DC rect/regulator. In addition, the yellow AC also powers the headlight, tail, and brake lights. The DC from the rect/regulator powers the speedo backlight, horn, signals, cooling fan (optional), and recharges the battery.

Mine was previously rewired with the headlight powered by the DC rect/regulator, but the light was very dim. I unknowingly ran it like this for about 100hrs until I had a chance to compare it to another berg. I have since rewired so that the headlight is powered by the yellow AC but the headlight is still dimmer than other bergs. So I was suspicious there may have been damage to the rect/regulator or possibly the stator?

When I checked the rect/regulator it was providing 12-13V (slightly below spec of 14V+/-1V) and was providing 1.25A charge current to the battery (slightly below spec of 1.5+/-0.2). So the rect/regulator seems to be working but is marginally out of spec? Rect/regulator problem or stator problem?

When I checked the stator AC output I got some unexpected results, but hey what do I really know about stators. I was just following the manual. I borrowed a scope meter and got the following with the engine running:

When measuring voltage between Yellow and Ground with the White disconnected I got 70-75V AC sine wave. Spec indicates it should be 12Vpeak+/-1V.
1YelGndWhiteDisconnected.jpg



When measuring voltage between Yellow and Ground with the White connected I got a 12-13V square wave that was on about 1/3 of the time (ie ~33% duty cycle). Spec indicates it should be 12Vpeak+/-1V.
2YelGndWhiteConnected.jpg



When measuring voltage between White and Ground with the Yellow disconnected I got pretty much the same 13-14V square wave that was on about 1/3 of the time (ie ~33% duty cycle). Spec indicates it should be 19Vpeak+/-1V.
3WhtGndYelDisconnected.jpg



When measuring voltage between White and Ground with the Yellow connected I got pretty much the same 13-14V square wave that was on about 1/3 of the time (ie ~33% duty cycle). Spec indicates it should be 15Vpeak+/-1V.
4WhtGndYelConnected.jpg




Firslty I was surprised to see square waves. I was expecting a sine’ish waves. Given the stator doesn’t meet the specs, there is something wrong with it. Could the input of the rect/regulator be doing something? I figure the readings somewhat explain my dim headlight (the stator is only providing power 1/3 of the time).

I checked the resistance of the stator charging coils and they were a little off spec as well (I don’t have the values in front of me). I am going to open up the stator to see if there is any visible physical damage.

I thought about trying my regulator on another bike or another regulator on my bike? But I am leary of damaging someone else's stuff.

Most likely I will probably just order the trail tech stator rect/regulator unless someone has any other ideas?
 
Steve
if you are not getting the full voltage you have 3 things to check
if you have the yel and wht disconnected with a volt meter hooked up AC scale
and you rev the the engine you should see 30 volts or better
with yel and wht wire connected to volt/reg engine running voltage drop the ground side. DVOM black lead to batt neg and DVOM red lead to volt/reg ground. DVOM red lead to ign cover and DVOM black lead to batt neg if you have more than .2 volt voltagedrop that would indicate high resistance in your ground circuit.
do the same thing on the power side of the circuit these volt drop test should be done
under a load if all checks out you got a bad volt/reg.
if it where my bike I would not have volt drop higher than .1 volt

later VIKING
 
Oh wise Viking - you gotta type reeeeeal slow for me.

You are suggesting I check the following (please clarify):

1. Check disconnected stator output (ie. Yel & Wht disconnected) by measuring AC voltage between Yel & Ground, Wht & Ground, or Yel & Wht? Measurement should be 30Vac or greater.

2. Check resistance of ground circuit by measuring voltage drop between battery ground and rect/regulator ground. Measurement should be less than 0.2Vdc.

3. Check resistance of ground circuit by measurnig voltage drop between battery ground and ignition cover. Do you mean the cover of the ignition coil? Measurement should be less than 0.2Vdc.

4. Check resistance of power circuit by measuring where? Any suggestions? Say between rect/regulator power and battery power as well as between rect/regulator power and headlight power? Measurement should be less than 0.2Vdc.

Tests 2-4 should be done under load (ie. bike running and headlight on). Correct?

Thanks for the tips!
 
Steve
1. Check disconnected stator output (ie. Yel & Wht disconnected) by measuring AC voltage between Yel & Ground, Wht & Ground, or Yel & Wht? Measurement should be 30Vac or greater

if your stator is grounded through its core (which I think you have)then black lead to ground and then red lead to wht followed by black lead to ground and red lead to yel
reason to test them separately is that they two separate circuits
if stator have been modified AKA. floated ground, then black lead to yel and red lead to wht, in such system volt/reg grounds the circuit

2. Check resistance of ground circuit by measuring voltage drop between battery ground and rect/regulator ground. Measurement should be less than 0.2Vdc.

now you could ohms test circuit but it is a very static test where as voltage drop test
is very dynamic test, to understand this imagine a 18ga/1.0 wire with just one strand
left the rest is broken off, if you ohms test this circuit you would have close to 0 ohms
now if load the circuit with a headlight bulb the bulb would be dim, reason for that is that
one strand of wire can not handle the current flow its like kink in the water hose
so if your current flow is greater than the circuits ability conduct the current flow
you have a voltage drop
so this test is to make sure that we have good ground between batt and ground for volt/reg

3. Check resistance of ground circuit by measuring voltage drop between battery ground and ignition cover. Do you mean the cover of the ignition coil? Measurement should be less than 0.2Vdc.

no sorry I didn't make self clear what I meant was the cover for the stator since stator
is screwed on to the cover and we what make sure that there is complete circuit

4.Check resistance of power circuit by measuring where? Any suggestions? Say between rect/regulator power and battery power as well as between rect/regulator power and headlight power? Measurement should be less than 0.2Vdc.

this is two different circuits again I asume that the system is stock
red lead to batt pos and black lead to where the wire comes out of volt/reg going to batt
yel/red wire you need to back probe the connector with thin object like a needle
now I have never tryed to volt drop a AC circuit but I think that DVOM needs be volts AC
black lead to yel wire out of stator and red to headlight SW followed by red to headlight bulb

this should get you started good luck VIKING
 
Thanks for taking the time to clarify. I will give it try.
 
Had a chance to check the disconnected stator output. Getting 45 & 50 Vac on the white and yellow wires at idle! Plus 70Vac with a blip of the throttle! So stator seems ok! 8)

Before checking anything else, I started wondering if it was the rect/regulator that was loading the stator and causing the dim headlight. Without thinking it through, I had the bright idea to reconnect the stator and disconnect the rect/regulator from the stator to see if the headlight (running on stator ac output) would get brighter.

Well did it ever! Unfortunately within a moment it went supernova and popped. 8O

The moral of the story - don't connect a 12V light directly to a 50V source! :roll:

Enough damage for tonight. I wil do some more checking this weekend.
 
Steve
looks like your stator is doing just fine, just be happy that you did supernova experiment
on motorcycle and not your car 8O

later VIKING
 

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