FR4 time to lay out what's what

rah rah arn't you all so pious. Is the UHE turning into the over regulated .......oh I give up..

Okay,

Here's a suggestion for the next Force Ride: A theme song from the Mighty Led Zeppelin.

Immigrant Song:

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
from the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods
Will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying:
Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar,
Our only goal will be the western shore.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
from the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
How soft your fields so green,
Can whisper tales of gore,
Of how we calmed the tides of war.
We are your overlords.
On we sweep with threshing oar,
Our only goal will be the western shore.
So now youd better stop and rebuild all your ruins,
For peace and trust can win the day
Despite of all your losing.

Elf said:

Clay


TN would be great! :greenjumpers: It is so beautiful, green & lush there. We have ridden in that type of terain a lot just not at the location you are talking about.

You are right Clay, TN riding is waaaay different. Those tight trails through the trees are super fun but definitely get more challanging when it rains. Which it does so frequently in TN. Those slimy sidways roots in the mud always did try to get me down. :lol: but I guess not much would be different with me I always tip over anyway since my feet can't touch the ground. :roll:

Is the entire area there all tight single track or does some of it open up like little quad trails or logging roads? Since I am not even close to being an A+ rider a little bit of openness would be good for me & for any others that are B or C riders.

Click to expand...

Loop 1 and 2 are on the top of the Cumberland Plateau and are surprisingly flat. There are some creeks crossings that are rocky and technical but not too tough. The trails are tight but the roots aren't too bad. Loop 1 is a little more open than loop2. There are a lot of two track roads that cross the loops so it is easy to bail out if you want to.
Loop 3 and 4 have more double track but they go off of the mountain and the trail gets rockier and hillier but wider.
The whole property is 17,000 acres and it has a lot of two track roads on it but they aren't really marked.
I've seen you ride. I think you can ride all of the loops.

tuts said:

taffy,
at first i figured your rant was to stir up some discussion.
but as this topic expands, i think that i guessed wrong.
although i support your ability to express your own thoughts, i do not support the tone that you have taken.
i am kind of ashamed actually.
if you would like a detailed reply to your initial post, let me know and i will try to break it down for you.
i'd rather keep working on my posts about the fr3 [yet unreleased] but that can hold if needed.
you are only damaging yourself with the slams.
kick it up a few notches in the character department.
what will probably happen though, is that this will be just another log to throw on the fire.


tuts :devil:

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nothing to be ashamed of tuts, sure i have put three posts on this thread, the first speaks for itself, the second simply replies sensibly to those that were seeing it for what it is - a topic that questions how many riders and justification for going back to CO if half the site didn't go?

that's all it was, its all it is. show me where anything i have written is as vitriolic as elf? it gives the site a bad reputation when all argument degrades itself down to a shouting match. it seems however that folk can't see when i'm smiling, stirring or steaming (mad!).

churlish behaviour has never been my way, a rant yes, even a bloody good rant but until last night i had refrained from EVER, EVER, EVER getting personal on UHE.

that's 9,300 and never have done. mind you i did take the P out of BKsavs in 2005. does that count? does he count?

i still haven't had my question answered. its difficult to take people seriously when they can't read properly.

numbers is the essential question. tha'ts all its about!

nowabout that therapy tuts? hows it going? you using the same guy as me? :lol: :lol:

regards

Taffy

tuts said:

taffy,
at first i figured your rant was to stir up some discussion.
but as this topic expands, i think that i guessed wrong.
although i support your ability to express your own thoughts, i do not support the tone that you have taken.
i am kind of ashamed actually.
if you would like a detailed reply to your initial post, let me know and i will try to break it down for you.
i'd rather keep working on my posts about the fr3 [yet unreleased] but that can hold if needed.
you are only damaging yourself with the slams.
kick it up a few notches in the character department.
what will probably happen though, is that this will be just another log to throw on the fire.


tuts :devil:

Click to expand...

well said Tuts

Sethro

Taffy, I'm possibly begining to grasp this. You are thinking that FR3 numbers were down due to location, and the ratio of Husaberg to non-berg is too low ie: too much Japanese and German being spoken, not enough Swedish ? I'm still a bit foggy on the commecialization. We should not solicit donations of money to help print shirts nor items to raffle off at dinner, because it takes away from the ambiance of the event ( shooting the BS over whiskey and fire) ? I'm just trying to understand your concerns/ ideas friend, I'm the first to admit, for being a bunch of "english" speaking lads we're all pretty damn hard to understand some times. If I ever figure Tuts & Aussie humor out, I think I'll get a grant from Obama and write a dissertation. Oh and I think I get the part where arkler is just posting out of left field for fun and laughs, good one ........you got me, i thought you were serious. can we get some more of those Zepplin lyrics ? No? Tull anyone Tull?
Later, Football tomorrow
Ron

Stoveguy said:

can we get some more of those Zepplin lyrics ? No? Tull anyone Tull?
Later, Football tomorrow
Ron

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No Zeplin for ya but how bout these lyrics from Murry Kellum in Honor of where a lot of us stayed in Gunnison, the Tall Texan.


One, two, three, four

Giddy up
Giddy up

Well I'm a long tall Texan
I ride a big white horse
(He rides from Texas on a big white horse)

Well I'm a long tall Texan
I ride a big white horse
(He rides from Texas on a big white horse)

Well people look at me and say
Hurrah hurrah is that your horse?
(He rides from Texas on a big white horse)
Yeah

Well I'm a long tall Texan
I wear a ten gallon hat
(He rides from Texas with a ten gallon hat)

Well I'm a long tall Texan
I wear a ten gallon hat
(He rides from Texas with a ten gallon hat)

Well people look at me and say
Hurrah hurrah is that your hat?
(He rides from Texas with a ten gallon hat)
Yeah

Well I was walkin' down the street
With my shinin' badge
My spurs jinglin' down at my feet
I seen a man a comin'
Comin' with a gun
And I just can't be beat

Well I'm a long tall Texan
I enforce justice for the law
(He rides from Texas to enforce the law)

Well I'm a long tall Texan
I enforce justice for the law
(He rides from Texas to enforce the law)

Well people look at me and say
Hurrah hurrah are you the law?
(He rides from Texas to enforce the law)
Yeah

Thank you
Thank you
Thanks a million
That's wonderful
Thanks an awful lot :lol:

I didn’t go to FR3 so I don’t have much room for comment except to speak to the pre-event planning.
Some comments were made regarding riders outside of the UHE membership and in particular about the KTM.TALK riders. It was my idea to post an invitation on KTM.TALK in spite of advice to the contrary. I’ve been a UHE member since ’01 and a KTM.TALK member since ’02 and since KTM is the parent company of Husaberg it seemed appropriate, so as we got closer to the event date and it began to look like we would not attract enough riders I extended the invitation. . “Enoughâ€Â

DezDuster said:

It was my idea to post an invitation on KTM.TALK in spite of advice to the contrary. I’ve been a UHE member since ’01 and a KTM.TALK member since ’02 and since KTM is the parent company of Husaberg it seemed appropriate, so as we got closer to the event date and it began to look like we would not attract enough riders I extended the invitation. .Dez

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Dez, Thank you for inviting my father and I. We both were very appreciative of being included.

Taffy, I am sorry you did not want us at the event. I assure you my father or I certainly did not want to impose on your or the group. Our intent was to meet some Husaberg riders and try to show some fellow riding enthusiasts a good time in our area. We both had a great time, met a bunch of really great people from this site that I certainly hope to get to ride with again.

TodColvin said:

Taffy, I am sorry you did not want us at the event. I assure you my father or I certainly did not want to impose on your or the group. Our intent was to meet some Husaberg riders and try to show some fellow riding enthusiasts a good time in our area. We both had a great time, met a bunch of really great people from this site that I certainly hope to get to ride with again.

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Tod, you're apologizing to a person that wasn't even there

I'm stoked to hear that you had a great time and you're more than welcome at any of our future events. Just keep in mind the old adage;

Nostradamus or Confucius said:

You can please some of the people all of the time and you can please all of the people some of the time.

Under no circumstances will you ever please Taffy.

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Hey Tod i would REEEEEEEEAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYY like to ride with you again. I think the trip to Aspen was one of the best trail rides in a loong time. The guys were great , allowed for the different paces,turned some around at the right time,so they had fun and didnt hate life. Got me just a little lost but..... got told a story by your Dad :twisted:
" I think this road is ok....... Pearl pass was a gas as was the rest of the day

Thank your Dad and his Gal, Nathan, Casey, Dalton and You Tod


Oh yeah
Clay............... thanks for the use of the 390 that day.......... converted a a big bore guy , it made me look sooooo gooooooodd :lol:

Taffy said:

i was disappointed to see so few Husaberg owners support FR3. the whole idea must be to get husaberg riders out and to enjoy themselves, we'd like them to be members here and have a husaberg ideally. our duty at all times is to put something in that the most members can reasonably join in with and nothing for those on other marques.

there seems little point in putting so much effort in if the view is staggering but the numbers were down on the previous one by over 50%; a figure i have yet to see disclosed here but i believe to be true.

i can't see the point in openly advertising that anyone is welcome outside our whoop of gori - i mean bergamoto's when we clearly couldn't all be on one location. when we started, we had husaberg owners from UHE asking if their friends could join and we said ok. that should still be the rule. we don't advertise outside here coz it's UHE we support first just ahead of the actual fact that you need a husaberg. in other words lizard killer is welcome over the husaberg owner who hasn't joined the site. small but important point to make so we start to identify what we're about.

all this effort for 20 husaberg runners i believe and maybe not all members here makes it a nonsense and we need to ask the simple, basic question why we do what we do! after all, not all members were able to stop at TT which should have been a right not a privilage. UHE members staying at TT first i think should be 'given' (as we say here).

i requested no commercialism at the previous force rides and about any sponsorship being involved before it happened and but kept my mouth shut. all you need to do is just turn up and enjoy a ride with your mates from here. not steve stranger on his honda.

so lets pick a place where the most UHE members will go, never mind the view this time coz clearly that comes second to travelling and time constraints not to mention a recession.

but that's all the more reason to make it affordable for 2 years time. if you want sponsors, ask them to pay for my flight! lets just go back to FR1 style and turn up and ride, altogether, in one place where we nearly knew everyone already before we even met! it's that simple!

if for one second of one day you have to fudge what you're trying to do: meet, ride, drink beer - then it gets in the way.

i tell you now, husaberg NA would rather see 30 husaberg riders in a pig field than 20 wherever. so you won't get any complaints there. i'm sure they want to add to the experience in the right way but we have the right to be asked here whether we want them or not and not to have anything forced on us that we don't want. so there is a balance to be struck.

while i'm delighted that husaberg NA made such a financial effort for 'us' i don't think they are officially members here and i think that could mean the top brass of the site start to look at things from the wrong side of the table. i would never take the coin and i have suggested at least once before that this must be a transatlantic 'trait'! fair do's!

i have more to say on the sponsorship but i'll wait for now. so i open an initial debate only for the fact that we should do it while FR3 is still fresh in the mind and the small detail can be recalled. these are merely my views which are agreed with to my face by a small few but important UHE members - tacit or otherwise.

when you don't know everyone it loses it's personal touch, we all knew each other at the first two FRs so lets get back to that as our mission statement for next time.

in closing:
keep it on here
members here or husaberg owners to ride
a direct friend of a husaberg or UHE member can come
if we have a small site, all UHE members come first on that site

go where the members will come
keep it simple and loose and most of all relaxed so that people come first over the occasion coz that's what you take away with you.

regards

Taffy

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and from you ron:

Taffy, I'm possibly begining to grasp this. You are thinking that FR3 numbers were down due to location, and the ratio of Husaberg to non-berg is too low ie: too much Japanese and German being spoken, not enough Swedish ? I'm still a bit foggy on the commecialization. We should not solicit donations of money to help print shirts nor items to raffle off at dinner, because it takes away from the ambiance of the event ( shooting the BS over whiskey and fire) ? I'm just trying to understand your concerns/ ideas friend, I'm the first to admit, for being a bunch of "english" speaking lads we're all pretty darn hard to understand some times. If I ever figure Tuts & Aussie humor out, I think I'll get a grant from Obama and write a dissertation. Oh and I think I get the part where arkler is just posting out of left field for fun and laughs, good one ........you got me, i thought you were serious. can we get some more of those Zepplin lyrics ? No? Tull anyone Tull?
Later, Football tomorrow
Ron

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Hello ron
i set out i thought VERY clearly that i thought our priority for the next Force Ride and that is to get UHE member/husaberg riders there as an absolute first and foremost. clearly, in a very close second would be a husaberg owner who isn't a member here.

from those two groups we then need to say how many riders we need there. i would suggest that FR2 was close at the 44 or so we had (48?). so wherever we go, our target must be to do it without OPENLY holding out a begging hand for all and everyone.

if you can acheive the above: what else could you want? you can have slow, medium, fast and furious (and road SM see below). late starters, early risers - you name it. gunnison didn't do that. if you go back again i think those that did FR1-3 may become prunes and shr.... u.!

so, far from numbers going up, i can see them going down. we had momentum after FR2 and i think its largely been lost and in some ways we completely overshot the mark. it's not dale's fault. hell, if i looked after a certain section i'd like to feel that someone else could look after simply getting bums on seats. this wasn't done and someone was let down and perhaps he thinks i'm blaming him completely and that on reflection, is unfair and i say that we didn't do enough in the recruitment area. But the net result was that there was $10,000 of prizes, husaberg NA and only 20+ UHE members?

the huge void between the amount of sponsorship and those from this site/husaberg owners that attended is in my opinion embarrassing. whilst dealers gave of course willingly, i'm sure that they worked hard for their money and to see just 20+ riders from here turn-up is unfair.

at this point I, (yes I) can't grasp the american way, it is defo different to ours. let me promise you ron, to have that much support with so few UHE there would be embarrassing here in the UK and unfair if you believe that some dealers/trade feel they had to support the event or did based on old numbers and the 'international' element or whatever that FR2 had and FR3 didn't.

so we need the sponsorship and the numbers of UHE/husaberg to get back into synch. i know clay is an individual member here and i can't talk behind his back so i'll just say it here: the cost of the promotion has to be justified by 1) husaberg bums on seats 2) sales as a result of 3) exposure due to. i have PM'd clay and we had a good chat. he knows how i feel.

the thing to remember is that i was set against it and it went through on the nod. now he's there and next time X and Y will come and the budget will get bigger, and the bigger the budget the more of our arses they'll want. 'can we bring in a display stand', 'models', '50 foot trucks' and everyone keeps saying "it adds to the experience" and then after FR4 none of the wild west boys will be there and it'll all be white collar workers again. they always phuck up everything donchyaknow! one-lung must be turning in his bed!

i gaurantee, on this trajectory, in 2 force rides time, there will be no camp fire, no loonies, no old bikes, no characters just possers and pissers. they'll take over again because they always do! they have to organise our lives for us so they can feel important.

you talk of the T-shirts, i've seen it written here that clay would poay for those. so Ron, at 3pm we agree where and at 4pm we have the location, T-shirts sorted and we chill. what do you say to that? hassle free, beer drinking time with your old red neck mucker from the muvver cuntwree - your diamond geezer - Taffy!

RE: Re: FR4 time to lay out what

taffy,

you seem to have a bit of a downer on fr3, unfortunately i have a feeling that anyone who was there is going to disagree with you. Accept this.

I think what you're trying to say is its a shame there wasn't more UHE members there, how can we get more to attend and your worried that any 'official' sponsorship may take away from the fun.

am i anywhere near the mark?

unfortunately you've gone completely the wrong way about it, and despite what you say it was not obvious what your were trying to say.
as for the salient points in your most recent post;

1.everything that could be done to get husaberg riders there was done as far as i can see. a few couldn't make it for various reasons, you yourself were one who couldn't make it.

2. you say we need to set a baseline figure. if we don't reach it do we not bother running another FR?

3. you say "gunnison didn't do that." didn't do what exactly, get riders there? give people a good time? plus you weren't there so no matter how many reports or people you speak with your still not going to get the true feeling of what a good event it was

If it was that it didn't get people there well unfortunately its a bit hard to compare it to Moab as we had people there that wouldn't of attended Moab, plus since the last one the economy's gone to pot which was the effect of reducing numbers.

So if all factors, distance, economy etc where the same and it was just the location that was different then yes you could draw direct comparisons, but unfortunately they're not so you cant.

As for giving people a good time. It did.

4. paragraph 4, don't get what you mean by "someone was let down", who? plus you've said that your not happy with extending the invite beyond UHE, yet you say there was not enough recruitment done. where do you think we will recruit new members from, it was pretty well advertised within UHE so if we cant get enough attending from within our ranks we gotta go outside.

5. the disparity between the number of UHE members and the sponsor ship is irrelevant, that fact that there were friends of UHE members etc there balanced out the numbers / sponsorship. I'm sure the dealers etc were sponsoring the event as a whole not just the paid up UHE members. everyone paid their $30 so is entitled to whatever they got. what would you rather have for $30 a t-shirt and a bowl of chili or a t-shirt, bowl of chili and a load of freebies? If companies are happy to sponsor the event take their money and run, they're happy to take ours.

yes i'd agree with you that if sponsorship got to the stage where we had to walk around with passes to access areas and had to be at point A at a certain time then onto point b for a corporate photo then we've gone wrong but that just didn't happen, plus there's enough stroppy gits - myself included - that if that did start to develop we'd all be sticking up 2 fingers and going in the opposite direction.

you go onto say that an event of a similar nature in the UK would be embarrassing. The fact is that in the UK we couldn't have put an event like this together. There is simply not the diversity of riding or the money available to sponsor an event. it costs 2 to 4 times as much to run events in the Uk than it does on the continent. An example is that for us to run the WEC event in Wales we could have run 4 in Portugal or Spain and the club made a substantial Loss.

i do agree that if sponsorship was obtained with empty promises then its wrong, but i cant see Dale doing that. all you can do is show them whats gone in the past and then the show them the future projections, then if they want to sponsor us they will.

6. just got down to your 8th paragraph and i'll refer back to what i've said, if it got to that stage there enough of us grumpy bugger to say sod that were off over that mountain see you.

7. last two paragraphs, again pissers and posers are likely to get left in the dust so there's little worry of them getting in the way but when you say "they'll take over again" have i missed some sort of UHE FR power struggle?

in the end i come to a FR to ride bikes, have a laugh, see new places and meet people old and new ( sounds a bit like a dirt bike version of Star trek) at FR3 there was nothing that stopped me from doing that. plus it was better organized than FR2 where on occasion i found groups of us standing around wondering WTF was going on.

Each day it was pretty clear that you could do your own thing if you wanted or you had a selection of rides to go on.

yes it was a shame that we weren't all on one campsite but when people leave it late to book, myself included, what do you expect. The nights around the campfire was all that was missing. This was proven by the BBQ we had a the colvins, where everyone had a good time around the fire.

But thats been sorted already, everyone who was at a previous Fr said we got to make sure we're all in one place next time, so when everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet its more likely to get done.

lets knock this thread on the head and get a mod to lock it because no matter how you meant it when you first posted its gone wrong.

any suggestions for FR4 can go on Sethros thread.

fraser

Well said Cypher.
I had actually crafted a long winded response to this, but lost it when the server kicked me out. The jist being.
1) Try to have F4 in one location (staging area) if possible. Keep in mind that it may not be possible.
2) Open UHE Force events to UHE members first. If the target number is not reached, open it up to other enthusiasts.
3) Don't sell out to the man
4) Try to have some faith in the caliber and integrity of the guy's planning the event.

I second locking the thread as we are beating a dead horse.

David, I know all of you comments are well intended. They just seem to come off with a lot of angst (uncalled for worry).
F1-3 were great experiences for all that went. F4 should be the same.

Alright Taffy I understand you now, X2 on Berger's last post, there are too many good men here to let the FR's be taken over by posers. Besides posers just don't "get" Husabergs. Looking forward to the next one
Later
Ron

The second is all that I needed to lock this thread. I had at one point wanted to just delete it in it's entirety. However I'm glad that I did not, I have learned to not do anything in electronic print when I am angry or have had a drink or two, regret always follows.

Therefore I think we are done here.........Concerns were raised, that I believe were done so to maintain the core and spirit of our get togethers. What is most encouraging is that the responses put forth in this thread are passionate and most importantly filled with "enthusiasm" Which if I am not mistaken, are what this site is all about.

So in locking this thread I will offer to anyone reading it, that if you feel strongly about adding something to it, especially someone who was there and did not have your say, pm me and I will unlock it for you to post your thoughts.

Here's a big thank you to everyone who helped make this event possible.

Sincerely,

Dale