different oils-effect on starter sprague?

Has anybody experienced the sprague slipping problem on the '04 bikes? Because I have on my 650..... :-(

Just pulling the manual decomp in to get the starter spinning sorts it out though (engine fires up straight away when the decomp is released again) but I suspect this should not really be necessary....

Cheers,

Jerry

well if anyone has a pert number for the bearing and maybe which manufaacturers are known to make this bearing-i'll follow it up. as it is i have the sidecover off right now because i am refitting the kickstart in order to sell the bike.

anyone got those numbers?

regards

Taffy

I have approx 90 hours and 1900 miles on my bike. My starter never slips, I have the opposite problem. The engine compression will stop the starter. If I use a jump start from the truck, the starter cranks the engine very quickly and the engine starts easily. If I rely on the bike's battery, I have to help the starter by kicking as I push the button. If I pull the manual decompression lever, the engine will spin quickly until I release the lever, then the engine will start. I have used Motorex full synthetic from day one, so maybe it is the oil. As Carl stated, he has cold start problems due to the DELO being too thick.

Splat

What MY is your bike?

Cheers

Jerry

Taff

Tafffffffffffyyyyyyy, What "bearing" are you talking about, the sprag clutch? If so I still have the box mine came in at home, it supercedes to a KTM part number.
Want be long now before I get my new beast!

scully

yep, it's the sprague bearing/clutch thingy! part # i require. i'll try at least to find something out. do you know who made it?

skf
rhp
***

forgotten what half of them were called now!

regards

Taffy

jerryt

I have a 2003 FE501e.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I believe the selection of oil to use in your engine is more than just a minor consideration. I have rebuilt engines that used only conventional oils and I have rebuilt engines that used true synthetic (group V) oils. There is a difference in engine wear.

Check out this:

http://www.maximausa.com/technical/lube ... ws2002.pdf

I personally prefer Motul and Motorex oils, but the information in the above link is accurate and informative.

I also visited Shell Oil's website via a link from another thread at another forum. Shell has an 'Ask the technician' section. There were alot of inquiries regarding the use of their oils and other automotive oils and diesel oils (e.i. DELO) in motorcycle engines. They strongly advised against such practices. None of Shell's oils are group V.

We had some informative and lively discussions on that subject. Unfortunately, that was prior to the Great Crash of UHE. (or was it an system upgrade?) Either way, I believe some threads were lost, maybe schwim can retrieve them for you, if you desire.

The engineers that designed the Husaberg engines, specifically state to use only Motorex Full Synthetic oil. I always believe that the engineer that designs something, knows more about that item than any other person. So why not adhere to that engineer's recommendations?

I have asked before, "Has anyone that has used Motorex oil exclusively in their Husaberg, and followed the recommended service schedule precisely, had a catastrophic engine failure?" I received no positive replies.

So now Taffy's sprague slips and we are again on the road of discussing oil selection.

I will continue to use the recommended Motorex oil.

Additionally, my son rides a KTM85sx. We only use synthetic lubes in it as well. We have had none of the problems with our clutch, transmission, or crank. At KtmTalk, many other people are having major catastophic failures. Those people also are not using the recommended Motorex oil.
Coincidence??

jerryt,
Is the sprag slipping or the engine not turning over due to compression. Sprag slippage is when the starter just spins and does not engage. If the starter engages but cant turn the motor over it is likely you have a decompressor issue. I think splat has this issue as well.
I have had the sprag slip on my 470 like Carl did. Replacing the sprag cured it the same as Carls.
Currently I have a 04 650 that had a slipping sprag right out of the crate. That problem is still being sorted. It gets a new sprag this week.

ok i have a brand new sprag in my hand its a ktm box with a husaberg 4stroke force sticker on it part num#25015301 ok and i just pulled the husaberg sticker off under neith sais DREILAUF FWD and under that is
H-250-153-01 same part number with a h in front of it hope this helps see ya guys


cheers doug

Berger

Thanks for the advice

The sprague is slipping - the starter does not 'lock' solid - so it sounds like mine has the same issue as your new 650. Sounds like I need to try and get a new sprague starter clutch as well.

Mine is obviously marginal as (a) sometimes it does not slip and the engine starts fine and (b) pulling the manual decomp in just enough to get the engine to start turning over builds up enough momentum for the starter to keep it turning over and then start the engine.

On a related note, I am now convinced that Dale is correct* re. the difference in trying to start a SEM bike cf ther Kokusan. I fired my '04 up yesterday for the first time in almost a month and despite the battery being rather tired and the engine not turning over very quickly it still fired up on eStart.

Cheers,

Jerry
*no suprise there of course! ;-)

berger said:

jerryt,
Is the sprag slipping or the engine not turning over due to compression. Sprag slippage is when the starter just spins and does not engage. If the starter engages but cant turn the motor over it is likely you have a decompressor issue. I think splat has this issue as well.
I have had the sprag slip on my 470 like Carl did. Replacing the sprag cured it the same as Carls.
Currently I have a 04 650 that had a slipping sprag right out of the crate. That problem is still being sorted. It gets a new sprag this week.

Click to expand...

sprag

Taffy said:

scully

yep, it's the sprague bearing/clutch thingy! part # i require. i'll try at least to find something out. do you know who made it?

skf
rhp
***

forgotten what half of them were called now!

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Taffy, the actual part number for the s/clutch are as follows,
250 245-01 clutch mech free wheel (sprag)
250 247-01 free wheel OUTER
250 273-01 free wheel INNER (02 only)
The sprag part number which was on the box supercedes to a KTM number
80040026000, (and was packed in a KTM box)but if you ordered the 250 number I'm sure they would know this?

some of yo will have noted that i've been running for three seasons without the kickstart at all. sometimes it has caused me great embarrasement etc but i've persevered because i've been getting everything running better and better.

i therefore have had only one de-comp and that is the manual.
if you hit the button with the valves closed on the compression stroke the manual decomp can't open the exhaust valves

the engine actually relies on you turning it through comp ond the exhaust valves doing their 'thang'. with the rockers pressing down your hand and the manual lever FOLLOW the rocker arm down.

when the exhaust valves and RA woul;d normally return up and back to the seat it's only THAN that your decomp says "ooh no you don't" and keeps the valves off the seat.

therefore the engine does lock and when you think about it what can it do half way up the compression stroke?

i have found that by using my old gunnerson battery charger that i'm not getting 100% from the yuasa ytz7s and that the engine rocks over faster than the starter is trying to go and unlocks the sprague.

with a super duppa 100% battery it is definately easier to turn. in the meantime though a new sprague bearing is only good for so long before it becomes like 'an old one' therefore my conclusion is that a certain critical point on the lips of the sprague very quickly wears away.

an analogy would be how we all use a sharp side to a pencil before rotating it a little.

poor design or tolerances methinks.

to back it up? it's a specially made part for the husey! how much R & D did that get then!

they know it's not up to it that's why they call it a restarter.

regards

Taffy

ok so should i have replaced my inner and outer races when i did my sprag :cry:

who knows what the problem is? a new sprague cures it for a while but it's difficult to believe that something isn't being designed wrongly. the tough one is 'is it man enough for the job?'. coz if it is too small then we're blaming things for nothing they can control.

the sprague appears to be a husey made item and it's therefore difficult to know what the specifications should be.

how about an e-mail address to ask a swedish engineer directly? anyone got one? i think dale used to have one?

regards

Taffy

Scully

what do you know to be the change difference from '02 to today?

is there an upgrade we can buy? was something later improved?

regards

Taffy

Taffy,
I have an old sprague clutch but the markings don't give much away.
On one side of the sprague there are 4 markings.

12 o'clock - K
3 c'clock - The arrow indicating direction of rotation
6 o'clock - 10
9 o'clock - NW

It would be great if it had been improved on the 04/05 model but as you know its unlikely they have replaced it with a bigger unit as there isn't any room to fit one.

twist

scully is talking of a completely different INNER if i understand him correctly.

regards

Taffy

twist

scully is talking of a completely different INNER if i understand him correctly-and you follow me of course!

regards

Taffy

Taffy

Taffy said:

twist

scully is talking of a completely different INNER if i understand him correctly-and you follow me of course!

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Tafffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy,
YOU are talking about a BEARING? The sprag clutch is not a bearing that I am aware of? And I am following the parts manual which refers to the parts correctly as I have! There is a bearing inside the sprag assy. I think me & Twisty know what I am on about as fellow Oswallers.

"250 273-01 free wheel INNER (02 only)"

didn't know what you were on about dingo!

regards

Taffy