53 cam - part of the starting problem?

Taffy · Dec 25, 2010

I now have about 13 mods for getting the Husabergs to start right. that's 13 for the 2001-2003 bikes which whittles down to about 5 still for the 2004-2008.

but I had another 2002 in here this week that only just starts on the button and I kinda slung it together in my mind after the customer asked an innocent question so I thought about it and suddenly I could see a pattern....

I'm pretty much getting these bikes like the later 2004 engines for what it's worth yet still they struggle. I explained to him that "well the only difference left is the camshaft. it's a '53' cam and has no overlap compared to the cam that came along the next year called the '08' which has loads of it and creates poor cranking compression. the 53 cam produces harsh/good cranking compression" and I suddenly found that I'd said what must be the last piece in the jigsaw! so that's No. 14 now.

beefy starter
7 amp gel cel/agm battery
starter repair kit
Denso plug
later ADC
later CCTB
new cam chain
*look for CFBs shagged, domed valve stems, rocker shafts worn, tuliped inlets and tappet pads cupped
renew all carb jets
smaller choke jet. manual choke at the old decompression lever
*maybe a keihin carb
modify the ignition timing
sledge mod for kicking
*a sparks stator helps even!

and finally....
an '08' cam.

regards

Taffy

ned37 · Dec 25, 2010

'53' cam and has no overlap compared to the cam that came along the next year called the '08' which has loads of it and creates poor cranking compression. the 53 cam produces harsh/good cranking compression

ok, you ragged on us the last time you left a comment that really required no reply for not leaving a reply, so...
change poor to lower and good to higher and it makes more sense to me; and what are the stars in front of the 3 items for? usually the author: you: will explain by a footnote. :bounce3: whassup? merry christmas!

bergbro · Dec 25, 2010

I think your right nedbro... we do need to show we are thinking or Taffy might think we take him 4 granted.... and wot he is saying is that the 08 cam with lora lora ovalap is efectivly working as a decompressor whereas th 53 has no overlap and has a higher resistance to cranking thus harder for electricleg to spin... yeah? or maybe i go back to sleep.

Xmas Merryness to everybody in Bergland.

nsman · Dec 25, 2010

Taffy said:
I now have about 13 mods for getting the Husabergs to start right. that's 13 for the 2001-2003 bikes which whittles down to about 5 still for the 2004-2008.

but I had another 2002 in here this week that only just starts on the button and I kinda slung it together in my mind after the customer asked an innocent question so I thought about it and suddenly I could see a pattern....

I'm pretty much getting these bikes like the later 2004 engines for what it's worth yet still they struggle. I explained to him that "well the only difference left is the camshaft. it's a '53' cam and has no overlap compared to the cam that came along the next year called the '08' which has loads of it and creates poor cranking compression. the 53 cam produces harsh/good cranking compression" and I suddenly found that I'd said what must be the last piece in the jigsaw! so that's No. 14 now.

beefy starter
7 amp gel cel/agm battery
starter repair kit
Denso plug
later ADC
later CCTB
new cam chain
*look for CFBs shagged, domed valve stems, rocker shafts worn, tuliped inlets and tappet pads cupped
renew all carb jets
smaller choke jet. manual choke at the old decompression lever
*maybe a keihin carb
modify the ignition timing
sledge mod for kicking
*a sparks stator helps even!

and finally....
an '08' cam.

regards

Taffy

Have you ever removed the elec start and the auto comp system and just used the manual (Handle Bar) valve lifter to help with this overlap issue.Or will it just snap kick start levers/shafts?

Taffy · Dec 26, 2010

I agree ned - i just say it how i see it and perhaps should edit more...

the stars are for things that might be found to be wrong as opposed to the other stuff which is defo all part of the problem.

and yes bergbro you explain it so much better than me! :cheers:

NSman
if you use the manual decomp lever to get it spinning it can't actually start. it's a bit like a chicken, it can run, it can flap, but it can't fly (ok 13 seconds alright alright!) but you get my drift!

regards

Taffy

schwim · Dec 26, 2010

Taffy said:
it's a bit like a chicken, it can run, it can flap, but it can't fly (ok 13 seconds alright alright!) but you get my drift!

13 seconds of run-time is an achievement many 2001-2003 owners would envy.

husabutt · Dec 26, 2010

Can you tell a 53 from an 08 just by looking at it? Is there a stamping somewhere?

Here are the listed cams for the 01's

200 230-01 Camshaft FE 400 e/FS 400 e 01-
200 230-53 Camshaft FS 400 c/470/550/650 01-
200 230-55 Camshaft 501 01-

2002 cams are the same as the 01's

Here are the listed cams for 03's:

200 342-01 Camshaft 400 cpl. 01-
200 342-53 Camshaft 550 cpl. 01-
200 342-55 Camshaft 501 cpl. 01-
200 342-08 Camshaft 650 cpl. 01- (new part, probably means will fit back through 01)

So all the same cams were used from 01-03 with the exception of the newly introduced 2003 650 cam (08).

Here are the listed cams for the 04"s (note the change in part numbering)

800.36.010.000 CAMSHAFT 450/501/550 03- (probably means it will fit back through 03 or is the same as the 03 , can't really tell due to the parts numbering change).

820.36.010.000 CAMSHAFT 650 04-

2005 cams are the same as 2004
2006 cams remain unchanged
2007 unchanged? (no 2007 parts manual listed) use 06?
2008 unchanged (no 2208 parts manual listed) use 06?

So in 2003 the 650's came with the new "08" camshaft.
How do you tell what cam came in the 04 -08 models due to the change in the parts numbering sequence?
Are all 2004-2008 cams an 08 ?
What is the 2004-2008 650 cam called ?
Is an 03 650 cam exactly the same as a 04 650 cam ?
Will the 04 decomp fit right into the 03 650 cam without modification ?

Taffy · Dec 27, 2010

husabutt said:
Can you tell a 53 from an 08 just by looking at it? Is there a stamping somewhere?

Here are the listed cams for the 01's

200 230-01 Camshaft FE 400 e/FS 400 e 01-
200 230-53 Camshaft FS 400 c/470/550/650 01-
200 230-55 Camshaft 501 01-

2002 cams are the same as the 01's

Here are the listed cams for 03's:

200 342-01 Camshaft 400 cpl. 01-
200 342-53 Camshaft 550 cpl. 01-
200 342-55 Camshaft 501 cpl. 01-
200 342-08 Camshaft 650 cpl. 01- (new part, probably means will fit back through 01)

So all the same cams were used from 01-03 with the exception of the newly introduced 2003 650 cam (08).

Here are the listed cams for the 04"s (note the change in part numbering)

800.36.010.000 CAMSHAFT 450/501/550 03- (probably means it will fit back through 03 or is the same as the 03 , can't really tell due to the parts numbering change).

820.36.010.000 CAMSHAFT 650 04-

2005 cams are the same as 2004
2006 cams remain unchanged
2007 unchanged? (no 2007 parts manual listed) use 06?
2008 unchanged (no 2208 parts manual listed) use 06?

So in 2003 the 650's came with the new "08" camshaft.
How do you tell what cam came in the 04 -08 models due to the change in the parts numbering sequence?
Are all 2004-2008 cams an 08 ?
What is the 2004-2008 650 cam called ?
Is an 03 650 cam exactly the same as a 04 650 cam ?
Will the 04 decomp fit right into the 03 650 cam without modification ?

this is an easy one (for me at any roads):
400 cam is called the '01' and is a gutless, short duration pile of pooh!
'55' cam was fitted to the 501 due the the crankcase height not synchronising with the 53 cam. other wise the same cam but timing on both lobes is shunted around 5 camshaft (10 crank) degrees.
53 cam was fitted to the only other bikes left: the 470, 550 and the 650 for 2001 & 2002 and then in 2003 the 650 had the '08'. the rest continued with their respective cams.

it is indeed the '08' cam that continues to the end of 2008 and by now in 2004 it is fitted to the new 450, the 550 for the first time and the 650 for the second year. I would think that the 501 in its very last year ran the '08' with the cam timing now corrected by a change in the deck height of the cases. after all the 2004 engine was a new casting so it seems a good time to get it right.

regards

Taffy

husabutt · Dec 27, 2010

Thanks Taff

From 2004-2008 the 650 uses a different part number than the rest. Could a 650 cam interchange with say a 450 cam? What is the difference?

Taffy · Dec 28, 2010

I've never spotted a difference and I seem to think I've checked them through but now you've said that I look forward to grabbing a 450 cam and checking them against each other.

regards

Taffy

ned37 · Dec 28, 2010

on the end of my '04 450 cam it had 800-5521 3/4067 (or 4087)
[attachment=0:1xub2cdu]berg 04 cam (3).JPG[/attachment:1xub2cdu]

Taffy · Dec 28, 2010

ned37 said:
on the end of my '04 450 cam it had 800-5521 3/4067 (or 4087)
[attachment=0:349kvq2k]berg 04 cam (3).JPG[/attachment:349kvq2k]

despite the '800' code it isn't a husaberg part number. code is: 800.36.011.000. but I seem to remember someone saying the 5521 cam was the same as the 53 cam?

I hope its an '08' cam - it would keep things simple!

regards

taffy

Taffy · Dec 30, 2010

had a 2002 650 in again today for exactly the same work and spun over at twice the speed! go figure that one out?

has the 53 cam as well. it even had the rogue coil on it and was stuck at 10d BTDC yet it still spun and started straight away.

couldn't feel the mains on this one.....

regards

Taffy

wheelieon · Jan 5, 2011

Taffy, thanks for taking the time to help all of us. Can you list the 5 things that cause the 2004 - 2008 problems.

Taffy · Jan 5, 2011

ewe?

tappets
rich jetting
auto decomp weak
sprague and starter clutch slipping
cam chain worn

good iridium plug?
do the sledge mod on some and not on others?

regards

Taffy

Bluto · Jan 9, 2011

Taffy said:
I now have about 13 mods for getting the Husabergs to start right. that's 13 for the 2001-2003 bikes which whittles down to about 5 still for the 2004-2008.

but I had another 2002 in here this week that only just starts on the button and I kinda slung it together in my mind after the customer asked an innocent question so I thought about it and suddenly I could see a pattern....

I'm pretty much getting these bikes like the later 2004 engines for what it's worth yet still they struggle. I explained to him that "well the only difference left is the camshaft. it's a '53' cam and has no overlap compared to the cam that came along the next year called the '08' which has loads of it and creates poor cranking compression. the 53 cam produces harsh/good cranking compression" and I suddenly found that I'd said what must be the last piece in the jigsaw! so that's No. 14 now.

beefy starter
7 amp gel cel/agm battery
starter repair kit
Denso plug
later ADC
later CCTB
new cam chain
*look for CFBs shagged, domed valve stems, rocker shafts worn, tuliped inlets and tappet pads cupped
renew all carb jets
smaller choke jet. manual choke at the old decompression lever

regards

Taffy

I have done about all of these mods,it is starting now after 1 kick!(except cam and "beefy"starter.)
That's with the Dellorto carb.
Only thing that annoys me is the choke which is hard to reach when driving.
Switching it to the other side is also tricky with the hot exhaust.
Can I use the cable of the decompression lever for operating the choke?
Do I have to use a cablenipple or something like that to connect to the chokevalve?
And does the lever/choke stays open when driving and doesn't vibrate back when driving.
The original choke has a lock.

Taffy · Jan 9, 2011

yes you can just about use the decomp cable. it is perhaps 4" short and heeds to stay behind the bars near the rider and go down to the left of the frame and then it is OK.

are you good with a grinderette?

you need to shorten the nipple by 2mm or so, you also need to grind down the diameter of the nipple. and then you need to add a shoulder to make the outer cable longer (you'll understand this when you see it) and then you're OK.

yes it's a achievable.

regards

Taffy

Bluto · Jan 12, 2011

Did the mod yesterday.
I added a dished washer under the decomp lever too let the choke stay open and not jump back by the chokespring.
Just use the thumb to push it back.

Thanks for the info Taffy.

deadeyedick · Apr 14, 2011

What is required for parts to do a cam swap to the (08) cam in my 02 fe400?

Are different valve springs needed?

The cam part number to order for the swap is 200 342-08 ?

thx

Taffy · Apr 15, 2011

If I was buying new I wouldn't buy an 08 cam. I'd go for the torque cam, after all I sell them as an improvement over the factory item. it has convex flanks while the factory cam has concave. I'm sure you've read of all the problems with ramp speeds and accelerated wear from the factories cams. I've never sold a factory cam so i don't know the part number.

regards

Taffy

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