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2003 FS 650 extremely hard to start

Further to previous post..... just read Taffys discription of cam timing in the doc (strip and rebuild section), sounds priddy straight forwards except there are no cam sprocket marks to line up and he does his timing on the NON compression TDC.

Check it out bro...... all good reading.
 
Suck/blow problem at inlet - do you mean at carb inlet throat? It'll be monday night now before getting chance to check.

Decomp - cylinder head one that is supposed to be controlled by the kickstart and thumb lever operates ok and when not in use the 'flat' on its shaft is such that it is not in contact with the valve (although i can't be sure without whipping off the rocker cover again). The third one i think involves a certain amount of witchcraft as i have no idea how this device which seems to be part of the camshaft sprocket would work.

I'll have a read of the doc again for cam timing/stripdown rebuild section.

If this leads to bent valve scenario how do they come out? Cylinder head off? then out the bottom? :?:
 
Remember - I bought this bike as a non-runner!

With the rocker cover off for the 2nd time and reading other threads on cam timing i have discovered with my engine at t.d.c., intead of my cams being at 11 & 1 o'clock they are infact at 5 & 7o'clock i.e. pointing downwards symetrically NOT upwards! :cuss: :evil:

Oh dear.

Please advise people.

Does this explain my non-start, suck/blow at exhaust end scenario?

I've not taken the cylinder head off yet ,pending further info from your goodselves. :D
 
Thats correct sir ! Turn the engine one rev and you are @ TDC again right ! Now the cams should be @ 1 & 11. Putting a ruler over the cams and it should be parallel to the face og your topcover. The camshaft turns half the speed as the crankshaft.

Then you can check that you've got the dots aligned on the clutchbasket

Hope this helps,
Anders, DK
 
This thread must look a litle confusing with this tdc thing.
Taffy sets his cam timing at a full turn of the crank past tdc compression which pooints the cam lobes up not down but for setting your tappet clearance you need the lobes pointing down not up..... make more sense? and of course the key thing for cam timing as the doc points out is to ensure the tops of the cam lobes (with ruler or simalar resting on them) are paralel with the head at tdc.
Wot happens when you turn the motor over with no rocker cover on? i.e. can you here air escaping down the exhaust pipe (all valves should now be closed all the time, and compression should be the only resistance as you turn it over. if very little compression apparent then you will need to look at the valves (or whatever inside motor as you pointed out you have not heard it running) step by step we will get there......
 
I turned the bike over minus the rocker cover,

However in my pre-cylinder head removal excitement i had removed the exhaust and the carb at the inlet to cylinder head.

So to confirm: -

Exhaust off - Carb off - Rocker cover off.

Bike turns over fairly quickly, couldn't notice much air being expelled from exhaust manifold or escaping around valve area. Nothing concrete to confirm either way really.

I've got a chain rivet extractor poised at the ready for the camchain to be split.

I'm not 100% sure how i can get enough slack chain to the top of the cam sprocket in order to get the riveted joining link apart, think i might have to drift it through using a pin punch.
 
Your spark plug is still in yeah?
The rivet link on cam chain i think is called a "soft" link (Taffyism) and are recomended as a one use item I believe which is why some on this site use an angle grinder to remove the link. New links are available and fairly cheap depending on make of camchain.
 
Ok, Cylinder head is off.

All 4 valves are present, the 2 x inlet look clean and undamaged.

The 2 x exhaust have deposits on them which look almost chalky.
 
Yes of course mate, cam timing seemed to be correct.

I'll need a head gasket before i can go any further with re-assembly.

What next before it goes back together?
 
just as a duoble check, pour some thin liquid (petrol,kero,meths etc) into the ports (inlet and ex.) to check valve seal. If liquid passes valve seats then the valves need work (maybe a lap if dirty seats or maybe replace if bent).
Does the bore have any scratches running up and down? worth checking whilst apart.
 
Leak checked valves, all four ok and holding fluid, no weeps etc.

Plenty of scratches all the way around the bore running verticaly. (Can't feel them by rubbing nail across them.)

A double ring of marks about an inch apart near the top of the bore running horizontally. Interesting pattern to them, like a double ring of quotation marks -

" " " " " " " "
" " " " " " " "

Again, can't feel them by rubbing nail across them.


The number on top of the piston is - 21201.

I have a new cam chain ready to fit, but need to get head gasket, money tight so not in too much of a hurry to order, however i am equally keen to get this beast together and running! :evil:
 
Hi folks

The last time i posted on this thread i was receiving assistance in a partial top-end stripdown to diagnose my non-running state of my 2002 fs650e.

I refitted my head with new head gasket today, fitted new cam-chain, i am struggling to get the return spring pre-tensioned prior to fitting my camshaft dutch clog decompressor shaft.

Any tips to make this easier?
 
well it's a ******* I can tell thee!

I put the cam sprocket in the vice with the ADC shaft at 12 o clock, I hvae the cam away from the bench and feed the ADC in from the back. i feed the shaft through the spring but stop it before it appears out the other end. I then spin the spring up with my right hand only and then press the ADC through as the 'D' profile comes right.

I then let go of the ADC and use both thumbs on the outside of the spring turning it like a steering wheel while pulling the decomp through with both index fingers over the back.

don't forget to crush the 'D' closed again every time it goes wrong.

regards

Taffy
 
I did mine sitting at the kitchentable ,with dimmed lights and 2 kids yelling and running around.
No vice in the neighborhood. :D
Just wondered how the new ADC was held in place because the shaft was different than the old one.
It is held in place by the spring:

gemonteerdeveer.jpg

assen.jpg
 
were the valves seated?

sometimes the valve seats aren't level.

regards

Taffy
 

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