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04 FE650e overheating

berger

berger

Joined Apr 2002
3K Posts | 11+
Phoenix Arizona
I just thought I would run this by everyone before I start taking things apart.
I have an 04 650e that has overheated since day one. If it is not below 50F and raining or over 40mph the bike overheats in 10-15 minutes. I have rejeted with a 172 main and 50 pilot and raised the needle 1 notch. The bike seems to start and run OK. I run Engine Ice and an overflow tank.
80% of my riding is done in 2nd and 3rd gear below 4000 rpm. Almost all singletrack, jeep roads and sand wash.
I have had the clutch cover off to install a Rekcluse autoclutch. This does not seem to have had any effect on the overheating. Yes, it did have the waterpump impellar installed.
The bike pukes half it's coolant out after 15-20 minutes of operation. It does not seem to be consuming it, no coolant in the oil and no smoke.
I'm going to do the first valve inspection this week and look at the autodecompression device since it has never worked properly. The bike now has 7-8 hours on it.
Your thoughts please.

Thanks in advance,
Ken
 
A few things come to mind:

1. You may have air in the system. On the 04-05 models there is a coolant bleeder bolt right by the spark plug. Open the bleeder bolt unti the coolant escapes without bubbles. Top off the coolant, test ride allow it to cool and check again.

2. A hose may be kinked.

3. The radiator cap spring may be too weak.

4. Mix the coolant at the correct ratio. Pure undiluted antifreeze will not transfer heat properly.

5. You may want to drain the coolant mix and try pure distilled water just to rule out the coolant as the culprit.

6. The radiator may have an internal restriction.
 
I did not know about the bleeder. I have drained it 5 or 6 times and always seem to get the required litre into it.
I am running Engine Ice so the ratio should be correct. I have run straight water and water with Water Wetter.
Radiator seems to flow top to bottom OK.
No kinked hoses.
The cap holds pressure until it boils over.
It boiled over the first 15 minutes I rode it out of the crate. I chalked it up to 105F ambient temp. New motor (tight) and lean jetting. Must have been wishfull thinking on my part.
 
hello ken

i suspect a head gasket from new? just your bad luck. i fitted a perfectly good new gasket and it spat everything out although not in the fashion you describe. because i was racing it just wasn't there at the end!

see the worksheet for slightly 'stronger' torque settings that were recommended to me.

regards

Taffy
 
Taffy,
What was wrong with the head gasket? It does not appear to be consuming the coolant and I do not believe there is combustion gasses in the cooling system.
Simon,
I believe the thermostat is an 05 improvement. I will check and see if the 04 has one, but I don't think so.

It's like the water pump does not work or there is zero air flow through the radiator.

Thanks for the replys gents.
 
Berger

My thoughts are this, although they are aside from any mechanical faults.

Big bore motorcycles, low rpm and low speed equal boiling. The low speed results in slowed air movement around rads. Low rpm equates to slow coolant circulation and big bores produce heat. I deal with this situation all season long in our high altitude single track. As of yet no real answer.

Secondly, I have not ridden with an auto clutch, but I understand their concept. They themselves produce heat. By slipping the clutch, you add extra heat to the engine which is hard for the cooling system to handle. My 501 has been boiled dry many times in situation where the "hot handle" or the clutch lever, needed to used. In fast cut and thrust situations it is impossible not to use it, but in easy trails it can be avoided.

I have no answer to make the bergs run cooler, but on the other hand, they deal with it. My buddies crf boiled once and he had to replace all the seals and gaskets in engine because they hardened or surfaces warped. Not on the berg, just add coolant and go!!!

Again, not to say that you don't have a mechanical problem. Just consider this if you still have a problem after everything has been verified.

fryguy
 
fryguy,
I have considered that they may just run hot, but I have seen feiw complaints. True, so far I have not seen any adverse affects from the boil overs.
As far as the autoclutch goes, it does not seem to change the overheat condition. It runs just as hot before as after the installation. My 02 FC550 has an autoclutch and runs the same trails. I have only boiled it over twice, and both times the ambient temps where +100F.

When I bought the 650 I was planning to ride it primarily for duel sport (not so much for single track). I am still shaking this bike down for the Moab trip.
I did see 2 other Bergs on the trail as well and they did not appear hot. I was going to talk to the riders but I was sweeping a group of 10 and they where going in the opposite direction.

Here are some video's of the trails I rode Sunday. The area is called the Mile Markers and will host round 2 of the FMF/AMA Enduro series in late Feb. 60-65F some water flowing through the small falls and the oasis. The bike boiled over 5 times on the 27 mile ride.
http://www.azdirttv.com/ad_Mile_Markers.htm
 
Berger,

I agree with Husabut about the bleeder on the Head. On my 04, the level in the radiator dropped an inch or so when I cracked open the bleeder after reassembling the engine. I can imagine a significant portion of the cylinder head may have had a trapped air volume in it. Read section B9 in the 04 Repair Manual. You don't have to remove the bleeder bolt, just loosen it a couple of turns and listen to the air escape, followed by coolant.

regards,

Joe
 
Hi Joe,
I will do that on reassembly after the inspection. I just have to believe that the factory knew to do that. Remember, it boiled on the first ride (only about 20 min.) and the coolant was full when I started.
 
Once coolant (be it ant-freeze or otherwise) cavitates and / or boils the cooling capabilities are reduced. Localized boiling is a concern in particularly regarding large displacement singles.

Solutions do exist and instead of this time giving said information to the manufacturer without compensation or even so much as a thank you I have opted to address said issues on my own. This is of course unless BMG would like to jump on board with me which would most certainly reduce end user expense and expedite the fix.

In the meantime "do not lug the engine"

Sincerely,
Dale
 
Berger,

I just looked at all of the videos on that site, COOL!

I can see how your berg got hot though, thats quite rough terrain, slow speeds, uphill, and some clutch slipping.

Man, all those rocks are scarry for an OLD desert guy like me.

By the way, the factory coolant I drained out seemed weak and watery compared to the Motorex I have been using.

Joe
 
berger said:
Simon,
I believe the thermostat is an 05 improvement. I will check and see if the 04 has one, but I don't think so.
Click to expand...

You are of course right. I'm getting ahead of myself here. Mainly due to the need for a thermostat being identified and suggested by Dale for my 650 back in the winter of 2001/2002. This due to the engine running too cold rather than too hot.

Cheers,
simon
 
Joe,
That is a cool site. There are a lot more video's on the other pages. I will include some more links.That is all the riding areas around Phoenix and the group I ride with. I am on the lesser end of the talent spectrum.
Rocks.... What rocks 8O . We have both types of terrain out here, rocks and sand with rocks, you choose :D
http://www.arizonatrailtalk.com/main.html
http://www.azdirttv.com/
Dale,
I don't usually lug it, I just don't rev the piss out of them unless I have to make a point to some one :wink: I am hoping that is the secret to both rider and engine longevity.
 
Hi Berger,
"Lug" being a relative term regarding the operation of an engine below it's torque curve.

Often one to help those in Husaberg need (even when it results in me being emotionally and financially screwed) may I offer the following thread for your review:

http://www.husaberg.org/modules.php?nam ... pic&t=1247

Look closely as I guarantee KTM is. :D

Since Josh Barrett is here on the coast this week I am hoping to speak with him face to face. I received his itinerary from Brett and promptly forwarded both Josh and Brett an email expressing my interest in a meeting. Although I would truly like for them to drop by for a visit I will likely impose upon them whilst they visit Motoxotica and / or Sub Cycles.

Sincerely,
Dale

Ps
Cooling and carburetor tuning issues were on my personal agenda.
 
Dale,
Thanks as always for your input. I hope you and BMG or Husaberg can come to an accord. It has been a long time coming.
When it comes to manufactures it seems they just dont want to hear it (corrections and improvements). That is why aftermarket supplyers thrive for the most part. Unfortunately for us the production numbers are just too small, but then that is part of the allure for the marque.
 
As i have mentioned before, the 04 models, for some reason, exhibited overheating concerns. The factory identified this and issued a circular that covered a modification the the cases. From memory, elsewhere in a thread is the template and instructions on how to carry out the modification.
Regarding the thermostat, remember that this unit is essentially a component that is used to control the "warm up" period then essentialy it beomes obsolete once the engine is at operating temperature. Whilst the thermostat is open it does effect a flow resistance on the cooling system, something that can be achieved by fitting a restrictor plate, much like is used on high performance engine's where the removal of the thermostat allows the coolant to flow to fast and the thermal efficiency of the radiator is overcome so a form of restriction is required without the hassle of a thermostat unit failing in operation during competition.
In the case of the MY 05 the thermostat was only fitted to the FE & FS-E models, the FC and FS versions do not have it fitted.
 
bahnsy,
It seem's so far that you are the only one that knows about the case mod. Do you have a copy of the bulletin and the template? I am wondering if it is something the Ausie distributor came up with. I will check with my dealer today, but they always seem to be out of the loop.
 
Hi Bahnsy,
On this side of the pond and to date the only factory bulletin regarding heating issues is that of ignition modules which provided excessive advance.

Additional information from your end is greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,
Dale
 

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