What Oil to use ?

mikst said:

Has anyone tested used oil to see if it is necessary to replace the oil or not? This depends of course of the riding conditions. If you talk to an oil company they think the 5 hours interval is very strange. I think I read that in model 2004 you shall replace the oil after 15 hours with an average fuel consumption of 6.7 l/h. For me this is very much. Only at MX or cross country condition I am at this consumption level or above. Normally I am around 3.5 l/h.

Tests performed at a university in Sweden showed that Mobile 1 is really nice oil. Tests with prolonged replacing intervals within a car brand Mobile 1 worked very well as well. They had no problem at all. But, I am still surprised that it is possible to use Mobile 1 Auto with a wet clutch. All these additives to lower the friction should stick on the clutch discs. On the other hand, if you can keep the particles, soot etc, within the oil these will not stick on the clutch discs. Auto oil will "wash" better due to the higher API grade.

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I change my oil HOT immediately after each days ride because of the aluminum and steel wear particles that collect in my oil during a 2.5 to 3 hour ride. About 1 hour of each ride is at or above 50 mph in sand, and the Bike is working hard. I can see the junk in the oil, it looks like very fine metal flake auto paint to me.

I clean the Scotts stalnless steel oil filter every 2nd or 3rd oil change. I use gasoline in a white plastic container to clean my oil filter. Its scary to see so many very fine metal particles in the bottom of the container, but comforting to know they have been removed from the filter. I end up using 3 rinses with lots of swishing in the gasoline to assure myself I have removed as much of the particles as I can. I have heard of some guys using a sonic cleaner to do this, maybe I should look into that.

I am not concerned about the oil breaking down over a few hours of riding, I am just concerned about all of those metallic particles recirculating and grinding up my Berg.

Joe

I bought my 03 501 new. How long should I expect to see metal particles in my oil ?
Thanks EuroEnduro

EuroEnduro said:

I bought my 03 501 new. How long should I expect to see metal particles in my oil ?
Thanks EuroEnduro

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You will probably always see them :shock: . Keep a close eye on your metal flakes as they are trying to tell you something.

Steel comming off the gears is usually normal.
Aluminum flakes caused by the timing chain sawing through the cylinder is usually normal.
Very shiny bearing material may be cause for some investigation.
If you follow the factory suggested maintenance schedule you should be good.

Husabutt, so what you are saying is no matter how good the oil I will always have various metals in the oil, thus the need for frequent changes.
EuroEnduro

Yes that is correct. Some are very disturbed by this phenomenon but it is usually of no consequence. Frequent oil changes are the name of the game. Many like the Scotts reuseable filter but I like the paper one as I think it might filter a little better and it is disposable. I cannot be sure about one filter being more effective than the other though. I use Royal Purple and have had excellent results. Its not popular by any means but it is one of the few group 5 synthethics (like Amzoil) out there that I know of. If you don't like seeing many flakes in the oil you won't as it is very dark.

Mikst,
Friction modifiers can be anything that modifies the normal friction level of standard motor oil. Moly is one that also serves as a nice anti- wear additive that in small quantities won't effect the clutch too much. What is in the Automotive motor oil sold in the USA with a hot viscosity of 30 or less is fatty substances. This will make your clutch slip. They have an API starburst label that states "Energy Conserving" on the bottle. Don't use that oil in a bike with a wet clutch.
The reason SH,SJ,SL oils got bikers in an uproar over whether to use these oils in a bike or not was due to these added friction modifiers and the reduction of anti wear additives. The Auto makers wanted the changes to help them meet Gov. fuel economy standards and to help eliminate warranty claims on the emission systems since the anti wear additives can foul the converters. 5/30, 10/30, and many 10/40 oils were changed to the new standards. With many plain bearing street bikes calling for 10/30 or 10/40, it was a big concern. The off road racing bikes tend to use roller bearings requiring heavier oils like 20/50. The changes aren't as big of a concern because most of these heavier oils were left alone since no new Automobile calls for that type of oil.
Have never seen an oil test at 5 hours or say 200 miles. Have seen plenty at 1000 miles. The broad sprectum (10/40) mineral based oils with lots of polymers are usually sheared down to a 10/20 in a bike that shares the engine oil with the transmission. An oil with a lesser spectrum and Synthetic based (Synthetics are very temp stable) like the Mobile 1 15/50 will test almost the same at 1000 miles. Remember there are practically no polymers in the Mobile 1 to shear down.
The guys with street bikes aren't out of luck though. Shell Rotella 5/40 Synthetic (a diesel oil) is an exellent choice for the plain engine street bikes and can be had at Wal Mart for about $12 a gallon.
Dan

Just a little more rant :rant:

You would probably be better off using a less expensive group 3 oil (petroleum hydrocracked) like Delo 400 and changing it after every ride than using a group 4 or 5 synthetic and changing it every 4 rides. Much has been written about oils previously and Dale swears by Delo 400 as he knows the additives used in it and they apparantly are vital to producing a good oil.

I think I will try Mobile 1 even with frequent changes. I know alot of NASCAR racers use it and you would think that would be the ultimate test for a oil. I appreciate everybodys input. This is a great site.
Thanks EuroEnduro

------------------------------Mobil 1 15/50---------------Delo 400

Friction modifiers-----------Moly 50PPM--------------Moly 200PPM

Anti Wear-----------------Zinc 1200PPM------------Zinc 1300PPM
-------------------------Phosphorus 1150PPM-----Phosphorus 1250 PPM

Acid Neutralizers---------Calcium 2800PPM---------Calcium 3200PPM
-----------------------------Boron 200PPM--------------Boron 120PPM

Moly was just added to the Delo 400 this year. Will be interesting to see how the starter spragues react to this. Yes, you are much better off changing the oil often and not thinking that expensive oil will allow you to extend the intervals.
dan

Dan, when your talking Mobile 1 15/50 is that auto oil or Mobile 1 motorcycle specific oil ?
Thanks EuroEnduro

Was referring to new Mobil 1 Super Syn 15/50 Auto. The old Tri Syn had a bit more Anti Wear and no moly.
Dan

Thanks for the info Dan.
EuroEnduro

deadeyedick said:

I've been using 10 w 50 motorex fully synthetic. I wish i could find a 5 w 50 full synthetic that is designed for motorcycles but I haven't had any luck.

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DENICOL makes a 100% synthetic 5w50 that is cheap (i will use it in my next bike and will sell it to my customers for 5 EURO each 1L bottle)

Delo

We used Delo400 15/40 in the Dirt Rider 24hr enduro test, at the suggestion of Mr. Lineweaver. No complaints.

Cheers,

Brett

Thanks for the post Brett. Right now I think I will use a full synthetic as its in the 40's here in Utah. Might try Dello in the summer when it warms up as I can get it free through my brother. Both my brothers use Dello in their Dodge Diesles and they say its as thick as molasses when its this cold.
Mark