velo's 05 fe550 spring observations and questions

velosapiens · Apr 28, 2006

so, i got a .44 and .46 spring for the forks, making a .45-ish spring rate since the .42 stockers were riding too low in the travel. the new springs were a few mm longer, so i left out the 2 thin preload spacers on each leg and just kept the thicker one. i went 2 stiffer on rebound damping and 1 softer on compression, and then did a couple laps on my little 2.5 mile dezert singletrack test circuit (lots of chop, small whoops, a couple big g-outs, a few rocks) and the forks felt way better, but the back end was now feeling kinda loose and bouncy. since **** wilk recommended an 8.4 or 8.6 spring for my ktm300 (25 lbs lighter bike), i naturally suspected that i should go heavier in the back.

so i put in an 8.8 spring i had lying around, put 5-6mm of preload in it, which gave me around 37mm static sag and 111-ish of race sag (hard to measure that by yourself). then i continued riding around (this is all on my lunch break, for you guys that live in cities and stuff). the bike felt like it had much better balance. i went 2 softer 1 compression and 1-ish stiffer on rebound (that stupid rebound screw is hard to get to, btw). the bike now feels pretty good. maybe just a touch stiff in the back, but i need to do some more riding and cornering stuff.

my questions:

1. is it really possible that fryguy was happy with an 8.4 spring in the back on his 05 even tho he weighs a couple stone more than me (i'm 170 lbs w/o gear) ? at stock clicker settings i bottom fairly hard on some of the g-outs and ditch crossings that we have a lot of here. if i turn the compression damping up, rocks and stuff get harsh. is there that much of a terrain difference?

2. are my sag settings in the realm of reasonableness?

i got started on the idea of stiffer springs after riding bigbob's husky 2 weeks ago. he outweighs me by 80 lbs, and i LOVED his bike. maybe i'm just a fan of stiff springs and light compression valving. it seems to give the bike a firm but not harsh feeling and keeps it higher in the stroke.

Taffy · Apr 28, 2006

mark

i believe that 105mm race sag is right isn't it?

i found after experiment that a harder spring felt better, i then found that putting pre-load on it made it feel better deeper in the stroke but not immediately on the small stuff.

i would go out with the spanner and try a full turn harder and softer and then go 1/2 a turn fronm whichever was the best of those two.

the back will then have a knock on to the front.

regards

fryguy. well, i've had a go at him over it but he's adament that he loves it like that. the man is an abberation.

regards

Taffy

bigbob · Apr 28, 2006

linked Sachs shock suspension on the Husky is really sweet. The WP Forks on the Husaberg are better out of the box then the Marzochiis on the husky but after a 600 mile break-in the Husky forks get better. The Husaberg rear shock seems a little choppy to me, but I figured if I want Dicks racing could work the bike for me,,,,,,I'm just too broke and the Husaberg is doing fine stock for me now, where the Husky shock was clearly too soft and needed a bigger spring to give me 4.5" sag

you'll get the berg where you want it, one reason I recommended the Husaberg for you is you seem so happy with KTM and the suspension is similar though some say the husaberg suspension is much more compliant and not finicky like KTM can be or so I hear. I knew the Fe550e was a desert/open bike so figured you might like it..

none of that gives you the answers you wanted I know, but wanted to post

velosapiens · Apr 28, 2006

Taffy said:
fryguy. well, i've had a go at him over it but he's adament that he loves it like that. the man is an abberation.

in oh so many ways. i have also noted lately that dwight rudder (old guy but still winning races, and a multi time isde medalist) runs a 9.2 on his ktm 525 for 175-ish lbs, and lafferty runs 8.8 on his 400 for 200-ish lbs. it's all over the map.

105mm of sag seems pretty low, but that's my ktm experience showing through. both my ktm's suck with the sag set to less than 115-ish. the steering just goes completely to crap. at any rate, it's so ridiculously easy to adjust the sag (unlike the frickin rebound damping) that i have no excuse for not trying a few different things.

i have to wait about another 45 mins, then i'll stop on the way home from work and experiment a bit more. i think that high-speed compression adjustment might be a tad too stiff now too (it's at the stock 1 turn setting), so i'll back that off 1/4 or 1/2 turn. unfortunately i'll only be able to ride a couple hours before the sun goes down. poor me.

Huskyfatman · Apr 28, 2006

Back in '02 I had **** tune my suspension for my weight (300+lbs) and he transformed it from a suspension that was harsh yet frequently bottomed violently to one that was super plush and rarely bottomed. Most of my riding buddies are way lighter than me and they say it feels better than most they've ridden, regardless of their weight (most ride YZFs). I can't recall what springs he used and the bike is a 520sx KTM. If I put on weight I tend to ride slower and when I drop some weight I ride much faster and more aggressive, but the combination of heavy springs and light valving seems to suit me and others who ride my bike. The only place I don't like the setup is in the dunes where the wallowy suspension seems to make the handling less responsive. I run more than the recommended sag because it feels like it handles better to me, and I can touch the ground better in really technical conditions. I'm gonna have **** do my new Berg's boingers shortly.

Johnf3 · Apr 28, 2006

I don't think you can go by KTM settings as far as sag. The shock is at a different angle, the frame is completely different as well as steering offset. I like mine at 105mm of sag, it turns like crazy and is stable without any oversteer.

That being said, as subjective as suspension tuning is--if you find a setting you like, run it and keep testing to dial it in. You're on the right track for sure.

fryguy · Apr 28, 2006

Cool thread gents - mostly because it presents an idea that suspension is not a black and white, this weight, this spring mentality....

I've been terrible for it myself, dictating what I thought was obvious.

Taff, I've never sprung the rear of a bike until the last few years, and only did the forks because they dived on steep downhills. In doing so I've always just rode what the bike delivered - ignorance is bliss! :lol:

Now I spring this and that, and yes they work so much better. But I'm finding myself with such different ideas of how to set it up for different venues. As John says, if it works for you run it, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Hope all is well with you gents

fry

ps 06 550, 4.6 fork springs, 84 shock spring, 35mm static, 115 rider sag and I'll post damping specs when I remember. Initially I had the bike set so it was stinkin fast on track, then road a trail and found the compression terribly stiff, so I have something really good now. I backed off the clickers a couple fr and rr and :idea: :idea:

all is good!!!!

VIKING · Apr 28, 2006

Hi guys
with the changed steering geometry, the common complaint is that the bike dives too much, most noticeable down hill the fix almost everyone is doing is to increase spring rate in the fork, factory seems to have gone a different route and lengthen the frame behind steering head to get more weight in the rear which makes less dive since there is less weight in front, once spring rate is increased a new set of problems arises fork feels good in the fast stuff and pretty rough in the slow stuff and rear feels funky, all sort of spring rate is used as it seems with some side effect, problems as I see it the WP progressive spring is in a general term spring rate is ok initially then it progresses too fast and then being too soft as the shock bottoms, if you got correct rate then rebound would be screwed up, going with the KTM route and using a straight rate spring it would be stiff initially ok in the middle and too soft at the end the benefit would be that rebound would stay consistent it, tough choice to make, personally I run a custom wound spring it is not perfect but close
so long
Per

fryguy · Apr 29, 2006

Viking

Tell us more about your custom spring please.

Fry

VIKING · Apr 29, 2006

Fry
the spring is a little softer in the beginning and the middle and the end is
stiffer compared to WP spring which little stiffer in the beginning then becomes too stiff in the middle and then too soft in the end, I run 105 mm
of sag and have 33mm of static sag,one other thought on front springs is
that the stiffer the spring in front the taller the fork stands dynamically
which means longer wheel base and more weight in the rear, problem with 06 shock is that they use a taller bump stop which is bad for rebound and rebound stack design in other words it is hard to to make the rebound follow the small stuff and have control when it is deep into the travel

so long Per

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