Vapor lock on 2010 390??

Fizz wrote - "By the way - others removing the cap ball may be a bad idea, as fuel under pressure has a higher boiling point - I am putting mine back in."

I am wondering the same thing. I didn't have this problem until after I removed the ball from the gas cap. It could just be a conincidence, but maybe contributing to the problem.

mp8075 said:

Fizz wrote - "By the way - others removing the cap ball may be a bad idea, as fuel under pressure has a higher boiling point - I am putting mine back in."

I am wondering the same thing. I didn't have this problem until after I removed the ball from the gas cap. It could just be a conincidence, but maybe contributing to the problem.

Click to expand...

FYI, I have this issue with all the stock vent check valves in place. Not saying it doesn't make it harder to have happen but, it's not the fix.

[quote="E-Ticket]Long shot - but maybe pull the air filter and make sure that you didn't get a puddle of water in the bottom of the air box? And while there - make sure that your fuel pump connector is fully connected?

Just trying to think of anything that might help .... - ET[/quote]


Thanks for the suggestion ET. Airbox is clean, unplugged and reconnected the under-seat connection. Made no difference. Tonight it runs for about 10 seconds before it dies.

I wonder if it could be the clearances within the electric motor? When it gets hot the clearances tighten up but not enough to stop it. When it finally does stop the electric motor doesn't have enough torque to overcome the internal friction. Although, the torque curve of a typical DC motor shows it as having the most torque at a dead stop and sloping towards zero as the motor approaches it max RPM. IDK, just a thought.

I know someone checked the fuel pump connector when this problem was showing up and they had power, but did anyone check to see if the pump was drawing any current, or if the pump was an open/closed circuit?

JohnnyQuest said:

On a side note, I really think I'm done with Husaberg. I'm going to lose a lot of money, but after pretty much losing one riding season, I need to get this POS fixed, and then I think I'm going to sell it. I've had so much down time on this expensive bike, that it's been nothing but a huge frustration. That combined with Husaberg evidently not giving a sheet, just makes this whole Berg experience WAY more trouble than it's worth.

Click to expand...

That is just a dumb statement. How can you call this bike a POS? It is simply magic to ride. I find what you say just wrong!

Just get it fixed and enjoy it. What other bike would you buy?
Just a dumb dumb dumb statement for a bike that is just so good.

Davo said:

JohnnyQuest said:

On a side note, I really think I'm done with Husaberg. I'm going to lose a lot of money, but after pretty much losing one riding season, I need to get this POS fixed, and then I think I'm going to sell it. I've had so much down time on this expensive bike, that it's been nothing but a huge frustration. That combined with Husaberg evidently not giving a sheet, just makes this whole Berg experience WAY more trouble than it's worth.

Click to expand...

That is just a dumb statement. How can you call this bike a POS? It is simply magic to ride. I find what you say just wrong!

Just get it fixed and enjoy it. What other bike would you buy?
Just a dumb dumb dumb statement for a bike that is just so good.

Click to expand...

Speaking from someone having issues with this also, it's very frustrating to have such a good bike and not be able trust it not to leave you stranded. I believe JQ and I have the same issue with dealers being hours away also.

Davo said:

JohnnyQuest said:

On a side note, I really think I'm done with Husaberg. I'm going to lose a lot of money, but after pretty much losing one riding season, I need to get this POS fixed, and then I think I'm going to sell it. I've had so much down time on this expensive bike, that it's been nothing but a huge frustration. That combined with Husaberg evidently not giving a sheet, just makes this whole Berg experience WAY more trouble than it's worth.

Click to expand...

That is just a dumb statement. How can you call this bike a POS? It is simply magic to ride. I find what you say just wrong!

Just get it fixed and enjoy it. What other bike would you buy?
Just a dumb dumb dumb statement for a bike that is just so good.

Click to expand...

Davo,
I’ll admit it was dumb to bring emotion into this conversation (even as a side note), since that’s not constructive to the situation. However, if getting very upset at my new bike for having continuous problems, only allowing me two good rides in 3 months, and then suddenly refusing to run after FINALLY being cured of the first problem is over reacting and dumb, then what do you call your reaction to my reaction? (I’m NOT asking that to pick a fight. I’m fighting with my bike. The last thing I want is another fight.) I see your point; you should see mine.

When this bike runs, it is pure heaven.

A sincere thanks to you and everyone else for all your ideas and suggestions…..

I can relate to how JQ is feeling. At one point, when I was having the bad ADC issue on my KTM 450 EXC-R - I was just about ready to sit in the driveway and just throw rocks at it. Another peep on the KTMTalk board said he HATED his Katoom (ADC issue again) for almost 2 years, was ready to sell it ... got the cam/ADC swap done ... and then immediately fell deeply in love with his bike again.

Net-net: when they won't run, or run properly, for a long, long time ... it can be *SO* frustrating!!! :angry:

Best of luck to all those affected. E-Ticket

You guys that are having issues, have you run out of gas ever and had the fuel pump running dry?
I know this is very bad for electric fuel pumps and will kill them quickly. Maybe this is the root cause? This could even happen when the tank as low and then descending for a long time down something steep causing the fuel to run to the front of the tank and the pump sucking air.

Electric fuel pumps also rely on the gasoline they are immersed in for cooling and so the ultra hot conditions present on these bikes are only going to exacerbate the issue.

Really makes me want to invest in a subframe tank. Both for extra fuel but also for fuel pump protection.

My experience so far:

I've got 25 hours on my 570 now and it's been amazing.

I put 15 hours on my bike in Taylor Park this weekend and never once heard the fuel in my tank boil. Previously it would boil after one slow technical section.
I made a ton of changes in anticipation of this trip and it looks my mods have really worked. The riding was very technical singletrack at altitude. Conditions that would certainly had my bike boiling before. Each day was very warm for this time of year, around 75-82 degrees F each day.

stats
A previously stock 2009 FE570

Changes
-Added DEI Titanium header wrap. I used about 48 feet of the 1" wide wrap and did a very thorough job and wrapped the pipe all the way to the spring attachment of the muffler. I even wrapped the clamp that is at the junction between the header and mid-pipe.

-Added DEI gold heat reflective tape to the bottom of the gas tank. I did all of the underside and wrapped the right side wing under the shroud that is directly above the header.

-Added a muffler off a 450sx-f with a pro moto billet cap with spark arrestor.

-Used a zip-tie to elevate the fuel line coming from the fuel pump to the throttle-body off of the head.

I can't say which of these modifications made the biggest difference but the sum of these changes is truly transformative. I can literally brush my header now and not burn my riding gear. The SXF muffler really woke the bike up and it definitely does not retain as much heat as the stock piece.

In my opinion this is the way the bike should have come stock.

All the major OEMs are having problems with Fi fuel pumps at this time.
They are confident that the problem stems from too high fuel temp.
Fuel tests in many parts of NA have revealed that the supposed max 10% ethanol( E10) is at times as high as 17% at random pumps accoss canada and the US.Even areas that do not advertise e10 fuels often have E10 in the pumps.The boiling point of E10 is approx 78C and the boiling point of non ethanol fuel is aprox 90C.E10 also has the property of water absorpsion witch contrbutes to corrosion of the fuel pumps and other issues.
The move toward low or no permeation fuel tanks so the bikes can be green stickered is known to also increase the fuel temp.
The race bikes that run conventional race gas or bikes run in countrys that do not use e10 fuels are far less prone to the fuel heat problems.
As bad as all this seems, these are problems that have been seen years ago in other equipment and in the marine industry. The cures range from better insulation of the fuel cells, (from heat), to remote or internal fuel coolers to new fuel pumps designs.
What happens is the vanes lose their shape and become more flat when overheated and much lower fuel pressure is the result.Ethanol often causes the white powder type corrosion seens in the pump filters.
Not all the problems are in fact caused by the pumps,many times the fuel is contaminated with dirt as many owners have not yet become accustomed to the higher level of cleanliness required when sevicing a fuel injected dirt bike.

l

Great post, NSMAN .... :cheers:

I did the DEI exhaust wrap and heat shield and it didn't make one bit of difference. Never have had less than a half tank of gas in it. The fuel has never boiled. I ride at sea level. I'm an A rider so even in single track I'm not poking around. We have a nice 6 mile single track loop. If I do that loop and kill the engine anywhere after a mile or two it will not start for 40 minute or until the fuel pump spins up again, which ever is quicker.

I contacted my dealer about the fuel pump tech bulletin. He said he would order the pump. I just heard from him today that they are back logged and ETA is November 4th! :cuss:

I read another thread about the issue was gunk in the fuel filter. I'm going to empty my tank and see if the filter is clogged and then fill it with non-ethanol gas.

BTW, this is not my first EFI dirtbike. I had an 2004 Gas Gas 450FSE and it didn't miss a lick. In fact, it made me decide that if I ever went back to a 4 stroke it would have to be EFI. If the Berg was my first EFI bike. I'd run screaming from EFI.

I got all excited after reading a thread on Thumpertalk about a 390 with this problem and it turned out to be the little circular screen filter inside the fuel pump. I took mine out and it was perfectly clean. :angry:

However, I started looking at all the mass of tubes and stuff in the tank and it appears to me that my in line fuel filter is in backwards. At least it looks that way to me compared to the diagram on page 19 of the spare parts manual: chassis.

Here is a pic. What do you guys think? For reference, this is out of the bottom of the tank.

Comparing it to the parts manual it looks like it is installed the correct way. There should be an arrow on the side of the fuel filter indicating the direction of flow as well.

Does anyone knows how many gallons per minute the berg fuel pump deliver?

crit rat said:

You guys that are having issues, have you run out of gas ever and had the fuel pump running dry?
I know this is very bad for electric fuel pumps and will kill them quickly. Maybe this is the root cause? This could even happen when the tank as low and then descending for a long time down something steep causing the fuel to run to the front of the tank and the pump sucking air.

Electric fuel pumps also rely on the gasoline they are immersed in for cooling and so the ultra hot conditions present on these bikes are only going to exacerbate the

Click to expand...

Nope. I've never ran it empty or even close to empty prior to this problem.

Something else that is being talked about...

The fact that the fuel itself is boiling doesn't mean much other then it's probably hotter then it should be. Raising and lowering the boiling point doesn't matter much as the actual temp of the fuel is what it is, boiling or not. Either way your pump is still seeing the heat. You can put the tank under pressure and raise the boiling point like crazy, but that doesn't mean the fuel is any cooler, just that it isn't boiling. Therefore I think the check valve and ball are not the cause. They may help with the boiling problem, but they probably won't affect the fuel pump itself.

Much like driving while angry I probably shouldn't be typing. :angry: :cuss: :cuss: F*^%ing thing won't run now. I took the tank off (for about the third time now) last night to check the fuel filter and the fuel pump filter. After putting it together tonight,I bought some gas with no ethanol and filled the tank with about a 1 1/2 gallons. Hit the button, fuel pump spun up, hit the button again and it started instantly. Idled for about 20 seconds and died.
Tried starting
Tried starting
Tried starting
Tried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried starting-- finally starts again runs and I can give it gas, but then dies again--Tried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried starting

No sound at all from the fuel pump. I get an FI light that is 1 long and 1 short (which means nothing according to the manual). I may drive this POS (yes, I said mine was, not yours) to the dealer in Miami just so I don't have to look at it until it's fixed. I'M SOOO PISSSED!

MrSmooth said:

Much like driving while angry I probably shouldn't be typing. :angry: :cuss: :cuss: F*^%ing thing won't run now. I took the tank off (for about the third time now) last night to check the fuel filter and the fuel pump filter. After putting it together tonight,I bought some gas with no ethanol and filled the tank with about a 1 1/2 gallons. Hit the button, fuel pump spun up, hit the button again and it started instantly. Idled for about 20 seconds and died.
Tried starting
Tried starting
Tried starting
Tried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried starting-- finally starts again runs and I can give it gas, but then dies again--Tried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried starting

No sound at all from the fuel pump. I get an FI light that is 1 long and 1 short (which means nothing according to the manual). I may drive this POS (yes, I said mine was, not yours) to the dealer in Miami just so I don't have to look at it until it's fixed. I'M SOOO PISSSED!

Click to expand...

Try this: I found out that after draining the tank to remove it that you really need to fill the tank nearly all the way before gas spills over some internal hump and makes its way to the pump. Yes, I know that's hard to believe. Fill the tank and then lean the bike to one side and then the other. Then bounch the bike. I was (still am) perplexed at how the gas didn't immediately make it's way to the pump. What you describe is what I experienced after removing and reinstalling my tank. The pump was just not immersed in gas; it was sucking air despite the tank being more than half full. (That's NOT my current problem.)

JohnnyQuest said:

MrSmooth said:

Much like driving while angry I probably shouldn't be typing. :angry: :cuss: :cuss: F*^%ing thing won't run now. I took the tank off (for about the third time now) last night to check the fuel filter and the fuel pump filter. After putting it together tonight,I bought some gas with no ethanol and filled the tank with about a 1 1/2 gallons. Hit the button, fuel pump spun up, hit the button again and it started instantly. Idled for about 20 seconds and died.
Tried starting
Tried starting
Tried starting
Tried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried starting-- finally starts again runs and I can give it gas, but then dies again--Tried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried starting

No sound at all from the fuel pump. I get an FI light that is 1 long and 1 short (which means nothing according to the manual). I may drive this POS (yes, I said mine was, not yours) to the dealer in Miami just so I don't have to look at it until it's fixed. I'M SOOO PISSSED!

Click to expand...

Try this: I found out that after draining the tank to remove it that you really need to fill the tank nearly all the way before gas spills over some internal hump and makes its way to the pump. Yes, I know that's hard to believe. Fill the tank and then lean the bike to one side and then the other. Then bounch the bike. I was (still am) perplexed at how the gas didn't immediately make it's way to the pump. What you describe is what I experienced after removing and reinstalling my tank. The pump was just not immersed in gas; it was sucking air despite the tank being more than half full. (That's NOT my current problem.)

Click to expand...

That was it! Thank you.

BTW..punching the tank works too :roll:

MrSmooth said:

JohnnyQuest said:

MrSmooth said:

Much like driving while angry I probably shouldn't be typing. :angry: :cuss: :cuss: F*^%ing thing won't run now. I took the tank off (for about the third time now) last night to check the fuel filter and the fuel pump filter. After putting it together tonight,I bought some gas with no ethanol and filled the tank with about a 1 1/2 gallons. Hit the button, fuel pump spun up, hit the button again and it started instantly. Idled for about 20 seconds and died.
Tried starting
Tried starting
Tried starting
Tried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried starting-- finally starts again runs and I can give it gas, but then dies again--Tried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried startingTried starting

No sound at all from the fuel pump. I get an FI light that is 1 long and 1 short (which means nothing according to the manual). I may drive this POS (yes, I said mine was, not yours) to the dealer in Miami just so I don't have to look at it until it's fixed. I'M SOOO PISSSED!

Click to expand...

Try this: I found out that after draining the tank to remove it that you really need to fill the tank nearly all the way before gas spills over some internal hump and makes its way to the pump. Yes, I know that's hard to believe. Fill the tank and then lean the bike to one side and then the other. Then bounch the bike. I was (still am) perplexed at how the gas didn't immediately make it's way to the pump. What you describe is what I experienced after removing and reinstalling my tank. The pump was just not immersed in gas; it was sucking air despite the tank being more than half full. (That's NOT my current problem.)

Click to expand...

That was it! Thank you.

BTW..punching the tank works too :roll:

Click to expand...

Spoke too soon. Ran down the block and died. Whacked the tank again and it started up. Repeat three times with progressively shorter periods of running and now finally it won't start at all.

1 1/2 gallons isn't enought to get this thing to run? BTW haven't heard the fuel pump spin up even when it started.