Turning ratio

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Does anyone know the difference in degrees between the 00-03 steering head angle and the 04 up angle ? Are the 07 models different ?
Are there any other goemetric change to the frames between 00-current ie. shock angle , wheelbase ?
My frame is an 02 , Atomic punk had an 03 and his frame guards (oem) did not fit as well as mine . Is there any difference between 02 and 03 frames or btween FC and FE other than additional mount perches ?
 
Although this seems very basic, there is actually quite a bit of physics behind the handling phenoma. It is a complex combination of stem angle (affected by front and rear sag values) and the amount of trail (affected by clamp offset and stem and sag values), combined with front and rear wheel weight bias. I thought I saw you post that you had CAD abilities, if so, you might try to take still photos (hihgest quality possible) of you setting on each bike in a normal riding position and take photos, and then import into CAD as tiff objects and scale off the differences. I do this alot at work (not for bikes), and it works pretty well. Once you scale and align the tiffs, it is pretty easy.
 
TM

you don't need to prove to me that there is 'far more' to it. my job is to make it understandable. i don't need to prove that i know it all but if you want to really confuse froggy and real off reams of facts and info then do it against my better judgement. it is a better man that keeps his knowledge to himself and imparts to another party what they need to know in the simplest terms.

if what i've actually said will do froggy harm, please tell me what it is?

but unlike you, i know how badly he rides, how lazy he is, and the chances of him carrying out any of this is absolutely zero. he can't rub two ha'pennies toigether and whinges that he needs a CAD operater to get him a washer. like all frenchm,en he will resist anything you tell him by bleating more and more.

so please don't fall out over this empty vessel.

regards

Taffy
 
tm-enduro said:
Although this seems very basic, there is actually quite a bit of physics behind the handling phenoma. It is a complex combination of stem angle (affected by front and rear sag values) and the amount of trail (affected by clamp offset and stem and sag values), combined with front and rear wheel weight bias. I thought I saw you post that you had CAD abilities, if so, you might try to take still photos (hihgest quality possible) of you setting on each bike in a normal riding position and take photos, and then import into CAD as tiff objects and scale off the differences. I do this alot at work (not for bikes), and it works pretty well. Once you scale and align the tiffs, it is pretty easy.
Click to expand...

My CAD skills are basic, have not played with these tools in a long time. I just happen to have met someone on this site who has his own shop.

I am trying to understand what makes the newer bergs turn a lot better and it's not really anything suspension-related, because I was trying Berger's bike at a slow speed.

Moving the forks up and down and asjusting the sag is something that can help but I guess there is something different in the angle of the steering column, but different offset as well.

I am just trying to find out what makes the difference, again I'd rather install an autoclutch than fidget with the clamp.
 
THEY ARE SPELLING MISTAKES NOT BAD GRAMMAR YOU TWIT!

it was MY spares box, you know, one you collect over the years/ really sorry that bobzilla didn't give you the washer that he was given by the husaberg factory years ago in full anticipation of somebody years later wishing to fit ktm yokes with an alloy stem.... why don't you phone 'em up froggy and complain that you don't have your own junk box of odds 'n sods?

the handling of the frame you have can be greatly improved, sadly the owner will take a lot longer....

regards

taffy
 
I'll leave frog and taf to their pissing match, but will encourage Frog to read the doc and try what taff says. If you want a bike to handle, you must tinker with it. There is always a compromise with the settings you use. 125s can get away with one setting for most every terrain, but bigger bikes don't have that luxery. Get a note book and go out with a tape measure and the appropriate wrenches (a spanner for the rear spring for preload, and a torque wrench for the forks), play with preload and moving the forks up and down in the clamps. You will learn alot in a hurry about how to make a bike handle poorly in a hurry. Moving your girth back and forth on the seat (and moving the bar clamps around) will also have and effect. As taffy says, it's all in the doc. One occasionally used trick is to lay a piece of plastic between the seat cover and the seat foam to prevent a dent from keeping you from scooting around on the seat, this will definity get you out of the seat (note it makes the seat very firm, especially if you are not accustomed to bicycle seats). This may also turn a sit on the seat rider into a stand up rider!
 
Taffy's aggressivity does not bother me, really. I don't know what his problem is. He has a beef towards me. Must be that francophobia crap they have in their island. For all I know he's the guy who laughed at the report of me breaking my arm. But what goes around...

I also have no clue what the guy is writing, sincerely, and I did stay in Britain and in Ireland.

I am not engaged in any type of pissing contest, I am just polite enough to respond to this guy and try hard to make him stop his bitching.

Anyway, I have tried a few things already, I know about the riding attitude and raising the forks up and down but I was wondering if there was not anything else to do, if the clamp were playing a part or if there was something different in the steering column.
 
Taffy, maybe you're frustated because you tried to cover everything with your doc, but you can't act like a hooligan each time someone writes a question that you answered, or think you answered in your doc.

Maybe too you should target a different person because there is basically not one day that someone asks a question that you already covered in your doc, and often they are veteran users of this site, but for some reason I am the one you will single out of the bunch.

I have nothing against you and I'm all peace and love but like everyone else I have buttons you don't want to push.
 
My earlier post has not yet been answered ,and I'm sure someone knows and will be kind enough to enlighten us when he/she comes across this post. However I do know the steering angle was steepened in 04 I just do not know how much .This change quickens / eases steering .
 
Husabergler said:
My earlier post has not yet been answered ,and I'm sure someone knows and will be kind enough to enlighten us when he/she comes across this post. However I do know the steering angle was steepened in 04 I just do not know how much .This change quickens / eases steering .
Click to expand...

I guess this is my answer. I don't think that tinkering with the clamp will do anything to improve the handling of the bike, besides of course the obvious (body position, hight of the forks in the clamps, suspension adjustment).
 
Lefrog

While you can't move your bar clamps back and forth, you can rotate them. :)
Also, how tall are your risers and why did you mount them? Risers decrease steering capabilities by reducing body weight on the front tire. I suggest you remove them and see what happens.

TM says it best, test, test and test.

Boy, Taff, did someone have a tinkle in your flakes? Cheer up old boy :)

fry

the fork angle was steepened, but I don't know where to findout the info for you.
 
LeFrog said:
Husabergler said:
My earlier post has not yet been answered ,and I'm sure someone knows and will be kind enough to enlighten us when he/she comes across this post. However I do know the steering angle was steepened in 04 I just do not know how much .This change quickens / eases steering .
Click to expand...

I guess this is my answer. I don't think that tinkering with the clamp will do anything to improve the handling of the bike, besides of course the obvious (body position, hight of the forks in the clamps, suspension adjustment).
Click to expand...
Maybe this will help maybe not but you should check and see if the steering stem bearings need greasing. That is what I did to my bike and it needed greasing. Then tighten the nut down to suit how light the frontend turns. It made a difference on my bike. There are a lot of good ideas here and in the Doc. and some or all of them could solve your question. I would try that first. If none of those suit and you are in the trading mode then just trade for one like what Berger has. Good luck.
 
TM mention something about using pictures in CAD. Would it be possible to take picture from the steering stem of a new frame and old frame and determine the angles in a CAD program?

Then when you know the angles it would be possible to re-weld the steering stem accordingly. A little complicated but if you have the skills it just might be an option.

Just a thought
 
sentinal said:
TM mention something about using pictures in CAD. Would it be possible to take picture from the steering stem of a new frame and old frame and determine the angles in a CAD program?

Then when you know the angles it would be possible to re-weld the steering stem accordingly. A little complicated but if you have the skills it just might be an option.

Just a thought
Click to expand...
That would not be a problem, the hard part is making a jig that holds the parts while the welding is being done and prevents "pull" from the weld.
 
A jig, heck without one maybe then it would steer really well, at least in one direction!!!!
 
I have a car- o - liner frame machine with all the fixturing attachments .
So jigging it into a solid position through the welding process is not a problem . Maybe a good winter project if we can determine correct rake .
 
fryguy said:
A jig, heck without one maybe then it would steer really well, at least in one direction!!!!
Click to expand...
Hmm, sounds like what I did to some bmx bikes as a kid, some even felt like you were crossed up evenwhen riding. The potential to tune the bike into handling like crap is very likely. Put a little twist in the headstock and things could really get weird.
 
fryguy said:
Lefrog

While you can't move your bar clamps back and forth, you can rotate them. :)
Also, how tall are your risers and why did you mount them? Risers decrease steering capabilities by reducing body weight on the front tire. I suggest you remove them and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Lee.

I added the raisers because I was crouching forward a bit too much and adding them made my riding posture a little better.

I hurt my back playing rugby (and then keeping playing when I should have retired or at least taken a break), and I am fine on a dirt bike as long as my back is straight.

Adding them did not change my steering dramatically, actually. My steering is fine, I was single tracking and riding in tight washes this week-end and did quite fine.

But when I tried Berger's 496 last week, I was amazed at how much easier his bike was to steer, and I only rode around the staging area in 2nd gear, I did not hit any hard trail with it, but I am confident it would be a lot easier than mine on the trail.

I was wondering where the difference was coming from.

You can check my setting in my gallery, the forks are at the same level right now.
 
wildbill said:
Maybe this will help maybe not but you should check and see if the steering stem bearings need greasing. That is what I did to my bike and it needed greasing. Then tighten the nut down to suit how light the frontend turns. It made a difference on my bike. There are a lot of good ideas here and in the Doc. and some or all of them could solve your question. I would try that first. If none of those suit and you are in the trading mode then just trade for one like what Berger has. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion, I may do that as well, eventually, although you can't be too liberal with grease.

But the "easier to steer" has more to do with the feel of it than resistance in the column.

I think the newer bergs are just easier to steer, which is great.

My 01 steers fine, but if I can do something to make it better, then I'm ready to try it.

I'm game. :D
 

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