Trail Tech Stator kit direct install on 04 FE650.

Thanks for posting on this,

I have been looking over the trail tech stuff quite a bit lately myself.

So you did the straight DC conversion right? And you cut your lighting system over to DC as well?

What kind of fan are you going to install? The stock KTM one won't fit as there isn't enough room between the tank and rad on the pre 06's.

Dale

DaleEO said:

Thanks for posting on this,

I have been looking over the trail tech stuff quite a bit lately myself.

So you did the straight DC conversion right? And you cut your lighting system over to DC as well?

What kind of fan are you going to install? The stock KTM one won't fit as there isn't enough room between the tank and rad on the pre 06's.

Dale

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All of TrailTech's stuff is straight DC. I think they say100w at idle for the stator they sell for the ktm/Husaberg 4 strokes. The lights run on DC, and they work WAY better on DC power as well. Plus, with DC, you can go HID if you choose.

Hair--Sounds like you are getting your bike dialed in for dual-sporting. I have a KTM 950 Adventure, and love it, but both my "real" dirt bikes have plates too!

Hair said:

Latest update on Stator. Last weekend I took my berg on a all day ride. Some of it was fast Highway speeds. The rest was at low speed with low motor RPMs.
I used the headlight on the highway. I didn't use the fan much that day.

I e-started the berg several times that day. I didn't spare the starter at all. Toward the end of the day I ran the battery down. This is probably due to the fact that I am only getting about 13 volts into the system. I should be running right at 14 volts. I've contacted Trail Tech about this. We have not come to any hard conclusion. My hunch is that the flywheel is a little light.

Given that the battery lasted much longer than it would have normally. The stator is a great improvement. I would recommend it as part of a solution.

I think that my next move is to replace the starter motor.

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Hair,

I am interested in some specifics here.

You say that you didn't use the fan very much, I'm assuming that you are still using the "thumb o stat" to run your fan?

Did you tap your head light into the battery fed system as TT had told you? You said that you used the headlight on the highway, did you turn it off when off road?

A buddy of mine has a late model 525 and has the KTM fan kit installed, as well as the Diablo HID head light. He had his stock kokosan coverted over to straight DC like the TT, and I believe used their reg/rect, the fan runs a lot, and he runs his head light a lot, and always uses the electric starter and has never had any trouble with the battery running down.

With 100 watts at idle and 13.5 volts you should be getting about 7.4 amps to the battery.

With a 65 watt halogen headlight ( 4.8amps at 13.5 volts), and the fan (roughly 2 amps) , you would only have .5 amps left over for charging the battery, and this doesn't include the tail lamp, let's say it is a 5 watt running lamp which is .3 amps, so that leaves .2 amps for charging the battery, if everything is on.

The fuse protecting the DC system is a 10 amp one, and I'm sure that the reg/rect is going to limit the current flow so that you don't go blowing that fuse trying to push too much power into the battery and or powering your dc system components.

The question I would be putting to TT is what is the max output of the stator to the reg/rect at speeds above idle, and at what rpm is this achieved.

I would be using a good quality digital multimeter to measure my stator output.

A suggestion: Make sure your battery is fully charged. Kick start the bike and read your voltage level at idle and when slightly revved up at the battery. Now turn on your lights and fan one at a time and measure the voltage at the battery, and then together, both at idle and revved up. If the voltage is decaying with everything on then you will have discovered your problem.

I have wound up a winding spec of my own for the Kokasan stator just waiting the regulator rectifier to turn up, then I will be able to see what you can get from the stator and at varying RPM.
I will also be doing some tests to see whether there can be any improvement to the ignition.
This is basically the same stator they use on the KTM 300 2 stroke of which I did some experimental work on a few years ago and managed to increase the performance of the ignition system.
It will be interesting to see if the same will work for the Husaberg. I have rewound my stator to the spec I used for the KTM but I never rode the bike on the standard stator so I wouldn't know if it has enhanced it in any way.
Will keep all informed.

Regards

Sparks.

I tend to ride a fair bit of single track. Had a weekend at a place called Lochmaree a couple of weeks ago and its all 1/2/3 gear single track, great fun. After about 3 hours riding the battery wouldn't crank the starter due to the fan. This has happened before. Coincidentally there was a guy there on a new 550 the same day, no fan, and he overheated his, but the 650 was sweet, just had to kick start it late in the day. You all know this anyway.

My solution, for which I've just acquired the parts is a 4 pole, 4pdt 10a switch and 30a rectifier. The plan is to set up the switch on the bars. Iin the 'off' position it will maintain status quo, with the thermo switch and fan powered from the battery. In the 'on' position it will switch out the ac to the headlight and the dc to the fan and connect the ac from the headlight to the fan via the recitfiier. Using a 4pdt switch ensures that the ac and dc won't get mixed up.

Its either cool at night and the light is on and the fan works normally anyway, or hot on the trail and the light doesn't work in favour of the fan. When I stop I can switch it 'off', and if the thermo switch wants, it can run the fan normally to cool down.

I thought about doing this automatically witrh a 4pdt relay but they are hard to find. I could use 2 dpdt relays but then there is no guarantee that they will both work simultaneously.

I may get to set it up this weekend, else it'll be a couple of weeks before I get the time. The biggest challenge will be neatly mounting and weatherproofing the switch on the bars.

I should have it all sorted in time for winter!!!!

I'll let you know how it goes and post a wiring diagram if anyone is interested.
Steve

You really do wonder why we need an AC and a DC circuit.

Keep up the good work Hair. This is a niggling issue that shouldn't exist.

I had another thought with my proposed circuit and that is that why can't you regulate and rectify the ac output and feed it in parallel to the battery with the existing dc circuit? Then everything can be dc and the battery will get enough watts to power everything. Does this make sense?

Steve

Steve, the stock setup is multiple AC windings to the lights plus one or two AC windings to a small lightweight rectifier for DC. The small rectifier's output is really only enough to charge the battery. If your coooling sytem is working well and you use a low power fan (computer case fan) the battery will stay charged. The stock fan draws enough power to run the battery down; that is why some folks put in a manual switch to limit fan time.
When converting to DC, it makes sense to float the ground so all windings work together for maximum output. It's really the larger rectifier that gets you the high DC output. I experimented with rectifying some AC headlight voltage to run a fan, but the voltage level was too high. I wound up with 17 volts DC, so I didn't hook it up that way.

Hi Neil,

Yeah, I had a close look at the wiring diagram last night and my plan is a waste of time. I should have done this first rather than make some assumptions, doooh.

I will pursue this further. the wiring diagram suggest that the lighting circuit pulls its power just before the regulator/rectifier. Is all we need a larger capacity regulator/rectifier?

If Hair's TT solution is the answer, then I may pursue that.

Steve

Since we're talking about the Kokusan system, I'll add this. What you want to remember is: reference to ground. The wiring diagram shows two wires bringing power from the stator for lights and charging. Keep in mind that you have another invisible wire, the frame of the bike. This is the ground path. There is a point partway up the group of windings that is tied to ground. One side is used for lighting, the other side is used for charging (rectified to DC because all windings output AC voltage).

When you "float the ground", you move the ground point to the end of the windings. The previous ground point is isolated (only connects two windings together now). All windings now work together (no more split). This provides one single output with maximum current and requires a bigger rectifier because this rectifier handles all the load.

Thanks for that Neil. I have had a few explanations of that, none made the term that clear to me. Adding the trail tech regulator is a good idea for those of us who use a lot of juice with a fan etc and constant restarts.

Thanks for the explanation Neil. I'll have to have a closer look at the wiring diagram again when I get the time. This issue is the only one that bugs me with my 650, everthing else is a joy. I can live with it, but I will fix it in time. I do like the thermoswitch, and the fact that it'll run when the engine is switched off, dealing with heat soak, and as a result it has never overheated, by which I mean blown coolant out the overflow and into the bash plate, even on 38 deg days in single track. In this situation the fan can run for up to 5 mins after shutdown, stop for a few and it'll then run again for another minute or so. This I like, but I did buy a button to start it, so I'd like that to work all the ime too.

I found a pdf file on my computer at home that I must have downloaded from the TT site a while ago that is a photo essay on converting a KTM Kokusan to DC by "floating the ground". I can't find it on the TT site anymore, maybe because they now sell new stators?

I could send it on if anyone is interested.

Thanks Hair for the update, I guess TT can now sell a Berg stator?

Cheers
Steve

steve said:

Thanks Hair for the update, I guess TT can now sell a Berg stator?

Cheers
Steve

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I think the KTM four stroke stator and the Husaberg stator are the same.