timing & overheating
- Thread starter jumperdog
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- overheating timing
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
jumperdog said:
Hi Jumperdog,
Much has been written regarding the overheating of late model Husaberg engines.
Regarding future reference may I ask those speaking of over heating to please clearly define their interpretation.
Example:
Are you drawing your conclusion based on coolant purging, burning your leg on the hot engine or by actually measuring the coolant and / or component temperature?
Thank you in advance.
Sincerely,
Dale
.
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
Re: overheating
Hi Jumperdog,
Purchase a recording thermal strip and place it in the vicinity of the cylinder head water outlet. When the bike begins to purge note the reading. If said reading is under 280 degrees F the radiator pressure and / or the cooling medium boiling point is too low for the conditions.
I personally use a 2.4 bar (roughly 30 psi) cap, however, such involves welding in place a new radiator spigot as unfortunately the Husaberg / KTM cap is a ******* being neither domestic nor import and to the very best of my knowledge (based on searching for years) only available with a maximum rating of 1.4 Bar (roughly 18 psi).
Others simply use a coolant with a higher boiling point. Unfortunately such an approach often increases component temperature albeit does not boil nor indicate hot with regard to it's own temperature.
Please let me know what you find regarding actual operating temperature.
Kind Regards,
Dale
jumperdog said:
Hi Jumperdog,
Purchase a recording thermal strip and place it in the vicinity of the cylinder head water outlet. When the bike begins to purge note the reading. If said reading is under 280 degrees F the radiator pressure and / or the cooling medium boiling point is too low for the conditions.
I personally use a 2.4 bar (roughly 30 psi) cap, however, such involves welding in place a new radiator spigot as unfortunately the Husaberg / KTM cap is a ******* being neither domestic nor import and to the very best of my knowledge (based on searching for years) only available with a maximum rating of 1.4 Bar (roughly 18 psi).
Others simply use a coolant with a higher boiling point. Unfortunately such an approach often increases component temperature albeit does not boil nor indicate hot with regard to it's own temperature.
Please let me know what you find regarding actual operating temperature.
Kind Regards,
Dale
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
I do not use words such as "toughie".
I said Ba*tard.
The definition of Ba*stard:
Not genuine, standard, original or pure.
That was a funny and I presume automated censorship. :lol:
Dale
I said Ba*tard.
The definition of Ba*stard:
Not genuine, standard, original or pure.
That was a funny and I presume automated censorship. :lol:
Dale
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
dsducati said:
Hi Dan,
For "coolant temperature" a thermal strip mounted somewhere on the cylinder head preferably close to the water outlet.
If using an infra red in search of actual component temperature (as opposed to that of coolant temperature) the rocker shaft plugs are a good target as they are black and directly attached to the head.
Most often the engine temperature is some 15 - 20 degrees (Fahrenheit) warmer then that of the actual coolant. Often when one is measuring coolant temperature via a sensor (as opposed to component temperature) and notes a reduction based on a coolant additive the reduction one views is as a result of said coolant absorbing less engine heat consequently the component temperature goes up while the coolant temperature indicates a reduction. (ie Ethylene Glycol, etc.)
Water is by far a better heat medium than anti freeze, special coolants, etc. Unfortunately water simply has too low a boiling point with only a 1.4 bar cap.
Regarding Water and wetting agents:
A 1.4 Bar cap provides for a maximum boiling point of roughly 266 degrees Farenheit.
Hope this helps.
Kind Regards,
Dale
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
dale
did you ever look into how the cap pressure is set? i.e. the 1.4 bar thingy!
so how about a stronger spring or a second rubber seal etc, etc, etc.
just a thought. i know you've looked into this you old bugger!!!!!!!
i'm always scheming as well...
regards
Taffy
did you ever look into how the cap pressure is set? i.e. the 1.4 bar thingy!
so how about a stronger spring or a second rubber seal etc, etc, etc.
just a thought. i know you've looked into this you old bugger!!!!!!!
i'm always scheming as well...
regards
Taffy
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
Taffy said:
Hi Taffy,
Various options indeed abound. I have talked with Stant etc. regarding the manufacturing of a high pressure cap, alas, those three little words
"Not Enough Volume". (even with consideration of KTM)
I have used a billet spacer and / or modified the OEM cap. In the end I prefer the Stant cap and simply replace the spigot to accommodate.
Kind Regards,
Dale
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 0+
Pasadena Ca.
Hi Taffy and Dale,
Forty years ago, I had a similar problem with my Triumph TR3 Sports Car in the stop and go traffic traffic here in Hollywood Ca. I solved it your way guys, I purchased a higher pressure Stant cap and used a piece of carefully cut PVC water pipe to make up for the length difference and an extra gasket to seal the pipe to the radiator. It has worked perfectly!
Regards,
Joe.
Forty years ago, I had a similar problem with my Triumph TR3 Sports Car in the stop and go traffic traffic here in Hollywood Ca. I solved it your way guys, I purchased a higher pressure Stant cap and used a piece of carefully cut PVC water pipe to make up for the length difference and an extra gasket to seal the pipe to the radiator. It has worked perfectly!
Regards,
Joe.
Make sure that your cyl head has been bled, by using the bleed screw near the spark plug pocket. The pocket if left unbled will cause certain overheating problems.
fryguy
fryguy
Joined Apr 2004
518 Posts | 0+
Arizona
So the low coolant temp on the temp strip at the water outlet on the head (below 280) shows the inability of the coolant to remove heat from the engine. Assuming then that localized hot spots you are trying to find with the infared , boil the coolant within the engine.
dan
dan
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
dsducati said:
Hi Dan,
Most often and with regard to "Magic Coolants" the boiling point is simply increased above that of pure water. Unfortunately heat conduction is reduced therefore the coolant medium temperature decreases (as it picks up less heat from the engine) and the mechanical component temperature increases as a result.
In the end it is the hardware temperature which is important as opposed to that of the cooling medium.
If the coolant temperature indicates 180 yet your actual engine temperature is 320 a problem is indeed present whether one is aware of it or not.
I use a wetting agent to increase heat transfer to the coolant ( often distilled water). Doing such increases the coolant temperature with a consequent decrease in actual hardware temperature, hence my need to raise the boiling point via increased pressure.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Dale
Joined Apr 2004
518 Posts | 0+
Arizona
Definitely does, the best mediums for transferring heat from the engine tend to boil the easiest and the mediums that will have a higher boiling point leave the heat in the engine. Either case problems. Us guys without your level of expertise tend to look too much at the coolant temp and if too high adjust boiling point upward, sometimes incorrectly with anti freeze. Never too old to learn. Why do you think so many members have had 550's and 650's puke the water out with std. water/anti freeze mix? Having owned only 400's and 501's I have never had a heating issue other than when my water pump impeller failed. Is these new high compression ratios and larger displacements taxing things a bit?
dan
dan
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
dsducati said:
Hi Dan,
With increased sales comes a more diversified market.
Tight, slow trails combined with a lean low speed A/F mixture and TPS which further advances timing @ light loads as opposed to rpm based advance and high speed, WOT application.
No problem says Husaberg and Hey, what do I know anyway.
Kind Regards,
Dale
Joined Apr 2005
134 Posts | 0+
Rodeo, California
In case Dale doesn't have any:
I used these at work: http://www.telatemp.com/tagsLabels2/tl_ ... Labels.asp
I used these at work: http://www.telatemp.com/tagsLabels2/tl_ ... Labels.asp
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