Park a Husaberg 570 next to a KTM or Japanese thumper of similar displacement, start them, let them idle, and then watch what the tires do on the two bikes at idle. I bet you will see the tires flex with engine rpm on the vertical thumpers and not so much on the 70 degree engine. Translate that to what happens to available traction as the bike is in motion and I think understanding will dawn.
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you will probably all scream at me but thats ok i can handle it!
i give the thumbs up for ktm for the following reasons
1 without ktm husaberg would have probably folded into bankrupsy
2 up until economic bad times husaberg have had a fairly free r and d program
3 in order to ensure that the husaberg brand doesn't fold under ktm they have probably had to make some very hard cost cutting measures hence the current changes
4 there is absolutely no reason that ktm in the future won't allow husaberg to continue their r and d when funds are more freely available
I can understand that some people are upset over what seems to be ktm clones but from a business view point ktm must feel this is the safest way forward in these current economic times
I personally feel that we are lucky that ktm hasn't folded husaberg I for one would rather see a so called ktm/husaberg than no husaberg at all
just something to think about :cheers:
i give the thumbs up for ktm for the following reasons
1 without ktm husaberg would have probably folded into bankrupsy
2 up until economic bad times husaberg have had a fairly free r and d program
3 in order to ensure that the husaberg brand doesn't fold under ktm they have probably had to make some very hard cost cutting measures hence the current changes
4 there is absolutely no reason that ktm in the future won't allow husaberg to continue their r and d when funds are more freely available
I can understand that some people are upset over what seems to be ktm clones but from a business view point ktm must feel this is the safest way forward in these current economic times
I personally feel that we are lucky that ktm hasn't folded husaberg I for one would rather see a so called ktm/husaberg than no husaberg at all
just something to think about :cheers:
Two cents worth here......
KTM bought out Berg and saved it btw for the motor design. The original KTM motors were good, but were more old school and frankly a bit of turd.
Husaberg has been doing a lot of R&D for a lot of years on motors and chassis........have you ever wondered how much of the current KTM motors are, or could have come from the Swedish R&D?
The 70* motor solves one of the biggest problems and or characteristics in handling, the Term (math formula) that relates the rotating mass of the flywheel and its gyroscopic effect, and its subsequent distance from the center of the mass of the bike. Also, take into account the Term of the reciprocating parts relative to the axis of roll, pitch, and yaw. Combine the lessening of these forces, and you get the quick handling of the 70* design, yet it is still stable.
So even if you make the motor a few pounds lighter, it does not negate the Term of the distance of the rotating mass from the center of the bike.
Another case in point, and I'll probably get flamed for this one, take the gas charged Closed Cartridge forks. They were designed for SX and MX, and do not work as well as the open cartridge forks OFF ROAD. And to back up my point, you will notice that all the off road KTM's still have the OC forks. The change to the CC forks on Husaberg's were mainly a marketing decision IMHO, which, I'm betting is the decision for the dropping of the 70* motor design. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who has ridden a properly set up 70* motored bike will have to admit that they work better in their intended environment than the typical design.
And there is an economical side, the new KTM motor cases are die cast, where as in the past they were sand cast, so I would imagine that die cast cuts production costs, and perhaps KTM did not want to invest in the dies for the 70* motor.
And lets not forget the man who headed up the 70 project left HBG in this last year if I am not mistaken.
KTM bought out Berg and saved it btw for the motor design. The original KTM motors were good, but were more old school and frankly a bit of turd.
Husaberg has been doing a lot of R&D for a lot of years on motors and chassis........have you ever wondered how much of the current KTM motors are, or could have come from the Swedish R&D?
The 70* motor solves one of the biggest problems and or characteristics in handling, the Term (math formula) that relates the rotating mass of the flywheel and its gyroscopic effect, and its subsequent distance from the center of the mass of the bike. Also, take into account the Term of the reciprocating parts relative to the axis of roll, pitch, and yaw. Combine the lessening of these forces, and you get the quick handling of the 70* design, yet it is still stable.
So even if you make the motor a few pounds lighter, it does not negate the Term of the distance of the rotating mass from the center of the bike.
Another case in point, and I'll probably get flamed for this one, take the gas charged Closed Cartridge forks. They were designed for SX and MX, and do not work as well as the open cartridge forks OFF ROAD. And to back up my point, you will notice that all the off road KTM's still have the OC forks. The change to the CC forks on Husaberg's were mainly a marketing decision IMHO, which, I'm betting is the decision for the dropping of the 70* motor design. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who has ridden a properly set up 70* motored bike will have to admit that they work better in their intended environment than the typical design.
And there is an economical side, the new KTM motor cases are die cast, where as in the past they were sand cast, so I would imagine that die cast cuts production costs, and perhaps KTM did not want to invest in the dies for the 70* motor.
And lets not forget the man who headed up the 70 project left HBG in this last year if I am not mistaken.
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DaleEO said:
Yep, no matter how you roll it it stings that we have seen the last of the true Husaberg brand, at least for now.
No flame at all, just my opinion ,which just applies to me and my riding only...I wouldn't trade my CC forks for WP's open chamber forks ever. The CC forks work better for me everywhere...in general a much more precise and controlled ride, and every bit as plush and forgiving when set up correctly. No draw backs. Although I am an ex-Mx'er, my track days are over and I ride only off road. I love my CC forks.
Conventional design forks whether they are CC or OC are going away soon anyway. Look at Kawasaki's air fork or the SFF fork that come stock on several of the japanese brands. The suspension on my mountain bike is light years ahead of the CC WP design anyway, granted my mountain bike drained my wallet nearly like my Husaberg did when purchased.
I rode a KX250F yesterday with the SFF fork.. It felt like poo. Mega dislike from me. Other owners are having some issues with setup on them as well, they've got a tendency to be really harsh over small bumps / braking bumps and shudder through the bars a lot.
Anyway.. I love my berg. Ive poured enough time and money into it I dont think I could ever sell it nor ever want to sell it. Yes; Its a shame it wont be made anymore. Economic down turn world wide has had an effect on everyone everywhere in some form or another. After the numbers were crunched, they just could not afford to maintain engine production after swapping to diecast motors. All of the rumors / spy shots are quite convincing that the 2013 bikes will be blue KTMs, but there has been no official word as of yet as to how they will differ from the KTM exc range. We don't yet know what they will be offering; it might be a really good deal!
Im going to remain optimistic here. Im going to consider 2013 a "gap year" for Husaberg. They shocked everyone back in 2008 with the slanted motor. Who knows what could happen a year down the track. If something like this turns you away from KTM/Husaberg, by all means, buy something not as good
Anyway.. I love my berg. Ive poured enough time and money into it I dont think I could ever sell it nor ever want to sell it. Yes; Its a shame it wont be made anymore. Economic down turn world wide has had an effect on everyone everywhere in some form or another. After the numbers were crunched, they just could not afford to maintain engine production after swapping to diecast motors. All of the rumors / spy shots are quite convincing that the 2013 bikes will be blue KTMs, but there has been no official word as of yet as to how they will differ from the KTM exc range. We don't yet know what they will be offering; it might be a really good deal!
Im going to remain optimistic here. Im going to consider 2013 a "gap year" for Husaberg. They shocked everyone back in 2008 with the slanted motor. Who knows what could happen a year down the track. If something like this turns you away from KTM/Husaberg, by all means, buy something not as good
Lots of good points being made on this thread.
On the economics, I'd like to see the numbers.
Has the downturn actually affected Husaberg sales? Haven't dealers sold every TE300 they could get, at MSRP? What about KTM300's?.
As far as making them less expensive, I don't think paying extra is huge factor to the new Husaberg buyer; it's a different market than KTM.
Go to the nearest steakhouse on Friday night, people are still lined up to spend $80 on dinner for 2. People are still buying boats, bikes, big TV's, etc. No matter how bad things get, people will still get their toys.
Although, things are going to get worse before they get better, so any economic considerations that aren't true now will probably be true in the near future. Just like Harley and Indian, whoever estimates the future the best, wins.
On the economics, I'd like to see the numbers.
Has the downturn actually affected Husaberg sales? Haven't dealers sold every TE300 they could get, at MSRP? What about KTM300's?.
As far as making them less expensive, I don't think paying extra is huge factor to the new Husaberg buyer; it's a different market than KTM.
Go to the nearest steakhouse on Friday night, people are still lined up to spend $80 on dinner for 2. People are still buying boats, bikes, big TV's, etc. No matter how bad things get, people will still get their toys.
Although, things are going to get worse before they get better, so any economic considerations that aren't true now will probably be true in the near future. Just like Harley and Indian, whoever estimates the future the best, wins.
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