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At 9200rpm, 15 deg ATDC in the combustion stroke, the angular deviance is close to 0,5 deg. No ordinary bearing types will cope with that!

I'm thinking spherical ball bearing (SKF 1206ETN9) and let it "all hang out". Anybody had a go with those?

/Dr_C

Nice job you made ;)

the SKF NJ 207 are able to deal with such job ,with 0.3 mm crank axial play , but not more than 50 hrs having 80 rwhp , reving at 9000 revs/min .


self-aligning ball bearings will let the crank "open" itself , up to failure , they work good with one piece crank .





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Nice job you made ;)

the SKF NJ 207 are able to deal with such job ,with 0.3 mm crank axial play , but not more than 50 hrs having 80 rwhp , reving at 9000 revs/min .


self-aligning ball bearings will let the crank "open" itself , up to failure , they work good with one piece crank .

Thanks!
My previous tests with roller bearings (0,6-0,8mm axial play) did not turn out well. The flange of the inner ring broke into pieces, causing all kinds of Mayhem in the crank case ("shoot peened" everything, demolished the counter balancer and sometimes pushed a hole in the cases). We will look further into the strain and fatigue of the crank wrist pin.
 
the axial play is critical using roller bearing , its hard to say what's is good or not , personaly i use between 0.1 and 0.3 mm max , the crank has to be drive very closely , its possible that your failure came from the "large" axial play .

wrisp pin diameter is also critical , for that kind engine 40 mm is realy a minimum .

web thickness is important too , 25 mm looks also as a minimum .


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After 120 hrs with self aligning bearings both sides My crank had same runout as when I built it and the pin welds were intact

Have you tried these bearings fd? And what failed when you did ?

I was expecting the cases to fail from axial loading at the low axial play

With rollers I run 1mm axial play no issues at all. The issues occur with too small bearings and less than .5mm axial play.

Fwiw There is a crowning radius on the nj rollers and a radius on the inner race that allows a big deflection
 
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i run these bearing once and the crank runout was over 0.1 mm after few hours , i did not repeat the test any more , but nothing gone broke , the engine was a torquey one , running with E85 .

i have to say that i work on Ktm 690 engines , not on husaberg .

the nj rollers are cool bearing for big single , as you said they allows great deflections .


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Without a balancer.

Mats would you consider an alloy or steel shoulder on the left that drew the main bearing towards the shoulder of the crank? I've been looking at this possibility?

by machining out the bearing housing and installing a alloy or steel shoulder like JBS did but this time spreading the load out radially up and out.

this way the crank is supported equally both sides and in rythym.

I don't follow the colour coding of your strain diagram?

regards

Taffy
 
wrisp pin diameter is also critical , for that kind engine 40 mm is realy a minimum .

web thickness is important too , 25 mm looks also as a minimum.
I was confident that the ratio between pin diameter and length of press fit (web thickness) was the key. These analyzes have shown that the there is a small connection, but not critical. In the model we increased the web thickness from 20mm to 29mm (to what I have access to forgings), but it only reduced the gap in the press fit by 8%. I think that if the crank pin material was of noticably higher E-modulus than the webs, then there would be more to gain from thicker webs. We have also done some models with large diameter crank pin, but that didn't either make a lot of difference. Maybe it's the combination that will do the trick? large pin, even thicker webs, main bearings close to the webs, angular contact bearings and a sturdy crank case? Or start knitting or learn how to play the violin?

Without a balancer.

Mats would you consider an alloy or steel shoulder on the left that drew the main bearing towards the shoulder of the crank? I've been looking at this possibility?

by machining out the bearing housing and installing a alloy or steel shoulder like JBS did but this time spreading the load out radially up and out.

this way the crank is supported equally both sides and in rythym.

I don't follow the colour coding of your strain diagram?

regards

Taffy
That is also an alternative solution. Little bit too much work if these bearings (which drops straight in) will result in a life length of possibly 50 hours.

It is not a strain (FE) diagram. The colours represent different levels of movement (mm) from a stress free reference point.
 
I use 22206 spherical rollers should be similar to those dr C

0.1 mm axial play and steel sleeves to spread axial loads nicely into the cases

120 hrs with up to 10 k rpm cases and bearings still good

Piston cracked at 100hrs liner at 100 hrs and 5 min lol

Big end died at 120 hrs so the mains and cases in this configuration are very good

Approx 75 rwhp
BTW, Bushie, did you make the bearings inner rings slide on the crank to avoid any axial forces from being applied on them while the crank is bending?
 
Yes I taped up the sides of the bearings put them in the lathe and used #400 to increase the id

I think the optimum for the drive side is just equal dimension to the crank


For the ign side 0.03mm bigger inside the bearing (bigger than the crank) works good
 
Dr C,
Just cross referencing the Load ratings for the SKF 1206 ETN9 Self-aligning ball bearings - 1206 ETN9
with a std Husaberg crank roller bearing SKF NJ206 Cylindrical roller bearings, single row - NJ 206 ECP
Don`t think the SKF 1206 ETN9 will last.

I think you would have to use the spherical roller bearing like Bushies their load rating is lot higher than the std Husaberg NJ206.
Spherical roller bearings - 1550032206

Tourist,
I might have already asked, but - Are there disadvantages to the self-aligning ball bearings?

One would be extra mass, friction and heat, oops thats three.:):):)
 
Interesting

Fwiw I think that combination would benefit from mechanically fastening the locating bearing to the case and the crank to the locating bearing with a collar eg like Honda CRf 450

similar to Dave Clarke racings idea exept that with his the locating bearing is not mechanically fastened to the case
 
I will put together a set of cases with them spherical rollers. Which is the best way to seal the right side?

Got hold of some good shelfes to get better organized. Not sure wether to call this "evolution" or "destruction"...

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Nice kitchen dr c :)

On the rhs I didn't use a seal. I drilled a 6mm hole between the ign cavity and the crank cavity at the bottom and I run the ign coils in engine oil

The extra oil capacity is nice

To use a seal I was going to make a small collar on the tapered part of the crank for the seal id

The seal od would sit in a cavity in the same steel collar that holds the bearing

Personally I like wet and lubed shiny bits
 
Now I have designed steel sleeves/inserts to make the 22206 fit on both sides. The transmission side sleeve will put the bearing in a position close to the crank. The sleeve will be bolted to the crank case with a couple of M6 and the seal will be OEM to both dimensions and position. The ignition side will have a sleeve fitted from the inside of the casing, stopped by a small "shoulder" that will land in a groove. It will be secured axially with a large diameter nut from the outside. The sleeve will have an external M68x1,25 thread at its end, for the nut. The seal will have OEM dimensions, but for obvious reasons placed 4mm further out and installed in the steel sleeve. The steel sleeves will have a 2mm wall thickness around the OD of the bearings, to leave as much mtrl of the load carrying cases. It´s getting late, but I can put up some CAD-pics in a day or two...
 

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