The new EFI system?

Simon · Nov 22, 2008

I was wondering whether anyone has had the time to look at the new 09 EFI system yet?

I understand it's the Keihin which is based on the Honda PGM-FI but I was wondering how they've implemented it - i.e. is it simply MAP and alpha-n - and what other functionality is being used?

What size throttle bodies?

Cheers,
Simon

Simon · Dec 1, 2008

Boing!

Nobody has had this thing apart to understand it then?

I'm sure I'm not the only person just a little bit interested. I'd assume so, but does it, for example, have pressure compensation for altitude?

Cheers,
Simon

gruntunberg · Dec 1, 2008

Hi simon bit off track but spent yestaday teasting the bmw 450 got to say very impressed by the whole motor,most of all how well fuel injection works on a dirt bike .
smooth power no bogging ,conditions were so cold camel back tubes froze !,but no probs just every twist of throtle seemed to produce
more smooth power , got to say well impressed.

VIKING · Dec 1, 2008

Hi Simon
This what is what I got out of the owners manual
it has blink code system where a 1 and 2 digit codes is flashed long and short flashes
flashing code is activated when a code is current and and throtlle is at idle
system consist of the following
TPS = throttle position sensor
CTS = coolant temperature sensor
IAT = intake air temperature sensor
RAS = roll angle sensor
O2S = oxygen sensor
MAP = manifold absolute pressure sensor
system will also detect with coil, fuel pump circuit, fuel injector circuit and ignition pulse
generator
about O2S I don't if it is a regular narrow band O2S or a wide band O2S aka air/fuel ratio
sensor the benefit of that would be that it is capable to sense presents of O2 at a
wider range which gives the ECU the ability to adjust mixture under partial load
my suspicion is that it is wide band O2S
it looks like the O2S has heater element, bringing up to operating temp. so it can work
as soon as possible and under all conditions
to your question about sensing altitude would imagine that it do that like many cars
at wide open throttle it knows this from TPS no vacuum and then it measures density altitude
I don't think that they borrowed anything from honda, programing ign and fuel maps
takes too much time to just let a rival manufacturer use
later VIKING

Simon · Dec 2, 2008

Gruntunberg,

Interested to hear about the bmw as I haven't come across any yet - not that I get out much at the mo :wink:

I've ridden the sherco 450 a few times which has had efi for some time and that worked very well.

Viking,

Thanks for the info, I appreciate that.

Given the costs and short life span, wouldn't you be surprised if they used a wide band sensor oem especially as emissions and fuel efficiency are more likely targeted at lambda = 1 out of the crate? If they do however, it would be interesting.

The keihin efi controller comes from a partnership between keihin and honda which started out as Honda's original inhouse fi programme. As you say, not the fuel and ignition maps etc. but the essential kit.

You don't know the throttle body size, do you? And whether they're using an external fuel pump like the Cannondales did?

Cheers,
Simon

swedishsteel · Dec 2, 2008

Hallo. On husaberg.com it says a 42mm Trottlebody and a fuelpump beneath the tank.

Now the widebandssensors are comon standard in the industri, its not expensive longer so I think also that this would be standard.

On KTM 690 they have used keihin efi, not possible its simular? or are the Keihin-honda diffrent?

Regards

Simon · Dec 31, 2008

swedishsteel said:
On husaberg.com it says ....

Yes, thank you, I just realised how blind I must have been when I scanned the site. All the info I was looking for was there, indeed :roll:

swedishsteel said:
On KTM 690 they have used keihin efi, not possible its simular? or are the Keihin-honda diffrent?

I read a while back that keihin entered into a partnership with honda regarding the proprietary honda efi system which was called the PGM-FI and that the keihin system is based upon this. I haven't been able to confirm whether this is really the case or whether keihin have, in fact, developed their own system independently.

This info might be helpful for tuning purposes, that's all.

Thanks,
Simon

swedishsteel · Dec 31, 2008

Simon said:
swedishsteel said:

On husaberg.com it says ....

Click to expand...

Yes, thank you, I just realised how blind I must have been when I scanned the site. All the info I was looking for was there, indeed :roll:

swedishsteel said:

On KTM 690 they have used keihin efi, not possible its simular? or are the Keihin-honda diffrent?

Click to expand...

I read a while back that keihin entered into a partnership with honda regarding the proprietary honda efi system which was called the PGM-FI and that the keihin system is based upon this. I haven't been able to confirm whether this is really the case or whether keihin have, in fact, developed their own system independently.

This info might be helpful for tuning purposes, that's all.

Click to expand...

Thanks,
Simon

I was hoping that they were using the same unit that is used by KTM, Then maybe It could be possible to use tuneboy Tuningtools to re-map the stock Ecu. I think this must be cheaper than the Hsb tunertool. Have used it on a friends Sxv550 in the past.
Have also used Romrider re-maping software (and its Free) :wink: for my Subaru Wrx.
With those software u can change everything in the stock box.

I also remember that i read in some magazine that the new Honda crf have a 50mm trottlebody

maybe it could be used on a 570 sumo bike. with aditional tuning and mapping. Than it would have a inletsystem that the old 650 where missing.

Regards

DaleEO · Dec 31, 2008

Gentlemen,

Very respectfully submitted, is there any reason to start remapping the FI unit? From everything I have heard/read it seems the efi on the Husaberg has no issues what so ever. Easy starting (cold or hot), no bogging, no hiccuping, smooth off idle transition.

Although I have very very little time on my 570, 1.5 hours to date, on the original ride I did, just putting around some old twisty overgrown logging roads, I tried several different things to make sure the efi would not give me any surprises and found that it was flawless so far. I will be going out for a proper break in ride on Friday and will follow that up with a proper ride report.

Dale

husabutt · Dec 31, 2008

Dale congrats on the new bike. We will anxiously await your ride report. Question, as you reside in Ca. also is the red sticker and not being able plate it an issue for you?

I apologize for the hijack

DaleEO · Dec 31, 2008

husabutt said:
Dale congrats on the new bike. We will anxiously await your ride report. Question, as you reside in Ca. also is the red sticker and not being able plate it an issue for you?

I apologize for the hijack

Thank you for the congrats.

And no, it being a red sticker bike is not an issue for me. The only place red stickers are an issue is when you ride at state ohv parks like Gorman, and I don't ride there unless it's either A-green sticker season, or B-on the closed course mx track, or during a closed course event like the ISDE qualifier where red sticker rules do not apply because it's an event, or finally, and this is my favorite, C-I don't ride the ohv part of Gorman anyways, too boring for me, I just use Gorman as a staging place to ride up into the Los Padres National Forest, where, as you might have guessed, the red/green thing doesn't apply. So in that instance I drive another 30 minutes and just stage in the National Forest, which is better anyway's b/c you don't have to worry so much about getting your stuff stolen, as Gorman has a rep for that. What's the old saying? Good roads bring bad people.

Further, if you are riding on BLM land, and your bike is red sticker, all you have to do is get a District 37 racing number, and when you go riding on non race days, you are "practicing" and you are exempt. District 37, as well as District 36 has events all year, including the restricted "red sticker" no ride time in the summer. But since it's a closed course event, the red sticker rules do not apply. That's why I don't buy into the whole I'm not buying that Husaberg this year b/c it's a red sticker bike. KTM sells a whole lot of the 300, 250, and 200 cc two strokes. In fact, unless I'm wrong, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that at least the KTM SX and one of the off road 4 strokes are not green sticker legal and they seem to sell like hot cakes. In my mind, it's just not an issue, and the dealers just need to make people aware that they have "options".

My most sincere apologies for the continued hijack of the thread, and I will stop here with the non pertinent subject matter.

swedishsteel · Dec 31, 2008

DaleEO said:
husabutt said:

Dale congrats on the new bike. We will anxiously await your ride report. Question, as you reside in Ca. also is the red sticker and not being able plate it an issue for you?

I apologize for the hijack

Click to expand...

Thank you for the congrats.

And no, it being a red sticker bike is not an issue for me. The only place red stickers are an issue is when you ride at state ohv parks like Gorman, and I don't ride there unless it's either A-green sticker season, or B-on the closed course mx track, or during a closed course event like the ISDE qualifier where red sticker rules do not apply because it's an event, or finally, and this is my favorite, C-I don't ride the ohv part of Gorman anyways, too boring for me, I just use Gorman as a staging place to ride up into the Los Padres National Forest, where, as you might have guessed, the red/green thing doesn't apply. So in that instance I drive another 30 minutes and just stage in the National Forest, which is better anyway's b/c you don't have to worry so much about getting your stuff stolen, as Gorman has a rep for that. What's the old saying? Good roads bring bad people.

Further, if you are riding on BLM land, and your bike is red sticker, all you have to do is get a District 37 racing number, and when you go riding on non race days, you are "practicing" and you are exempt. District 37, as well as District 36 has events all year, including the restricted "red sticker" no ride time in the summer. But since it's a closed course event, the red sticker rules do not apply. That's why I don't buy into the whole I'm not buying that Husaberg this year b/c it's a red sticker bike. KTM sells a whole lot of the 300, 250, and 200 cc two strokes. In fact, unless I'm wrong, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that at least the KTM SX and one of the off road 4 strokes are not green sticker legal and they seem to sell like hot cakes. In my mind, it's just not an issue, and the dealers just need to make people aware that they have "options".

My most sincere apologies for the continued hijack of the thread, and I will stop here with the non pertinent subject matter.

It was meant for tuning not for a standard bike. as that what i heard is spot-on from factory. what i heard from test and you lucky *******s that have got one. But for us SUMO-boys that cant get to much power its interesting to be able to remap the Ecu. with some serious tuning.

Regards

DaleEO · Dec 31, 2008

swedishsteel said:
DaleEO said:

husabutt said:

Dale congrats on the new bike. We will anxiously await your ride report. Question, as you reside in Ca. also is the red sticker and not being able plate it an issue for you?

I apologize for the hijack

Click to expand...

Thank you for the congrats.

And no, it being a red sticker bike is not an issue for me. The only place red stickers are an issue is when you ride at state ohv parks like Gorman, and I don't ride there unless it's either A-green sticker season, or B-on the closed course mx track, or during a closed course event like the ISDE qualifier where red sticker rules do not apply because it's an event, or finally, and this is my favorite, C-I don't ride the ohv part of Gorman anyways, too boring for me, I just use Gorman as a staging place to ride up into the Los Padres National Forest, where, as you might have guessed, the red/green thing doesn't apply. So in that instance I drive another 30 minutes and just stage in the National Forest, which is better anyway's b/c you don't have to worry so much about getting your stuff stolen, as Gorman has a rep for that. What's the old saying? Good roads bring bad people.

Further, if you are riding on BLM land, and your bike is red sticker, all you have to do is get a District 37 racing number, and when you go riding on non race days, you are "practicing" and you are exempt. District 37, as well as District 36 has events all year, including the restricted "red sticker" no ride time in the summer. But since it's a closed course event, the red sticker rules do not apply. That's why I don't buy into the whole I'm not buying that Husaberg this year b/c it's a red sticker bike. KTM sells a whole lot of the 300, 250, and 200 cc two strokes. In fact, unless I'm wrong, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that at least the KTM SX and one of the off road 4 strokes are not green sticker legal and they seem to sell like hot cakes. In my mind, it's just not an issue, and the dealers just need to make people aware that they have "options".

My most sincere apologies for the continued hijack of the thread, and I will stop here with the non pertinent subject matter.

Click to expand...

It was meant for tuning not for a standard bike. as that what i heard is spot-on from factory. what i heard from test and you lucky *******s that have got one. But for us SUMO-boys that cant get to much power its interesting to be able to remap the Ecu. with some serious tuning.

Regards

Right on Sweedish,

Point well taken. I guess it would really help in asphalt racing when you are leaned over and are just starting to come onto the power as well. Maybe, with the tunability that is offered, you will as Rossi would say, "I finda my rhythm, and I go".

dustbite · Jan 10, 2009

for anyone interested, here's the wiring diagram for MY 09
it shows the list of sensors

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The new EFI system?

Simon

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gruntunberg

VIKING

Simon

swedishsteel

Simon

swedishsteel

DaleEO

husabutt

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swedishsteel

DaleEO

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