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Taff's electrical problems 2006

Taffy

Taffy

Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
well if you're wondering why i've been quiet lately perhaps this you'll understand why today...

i started my racing season last weekend by entering the opening banovallum meeting up in lincolnshire last sunday. the bike started straight off off the trailer but after a siting lap - during which i went through some slop etc - the bike wouldn't start on the start line. that is so soul destroying that i cannot tell you.

i did get it running but after fighting my way past a bunch of riders the thing stalled and wouldn't start for a couple of minutes. i happened to be near the pit so i pulled in and called it a day.

something has happened to the bike lately and i don't really know what it is? it stalled twice or more in the woods at swaffham recently and cookeye was there to help me and give me a new plug.

i'll be riding up to a corner and whetehr freewheeling or locked up it doesn't matter. the engine will die. i can tootle up to a corner and it'll die.

it's all low speed stuff. it never ever misfires. it simply waits for a corner and stops!

i have a new plug cap and have cleaned and checked many connections during the past week. i have stripped the carb and found nowt.

i must try lots of other things this week as i have entered yet another meeting for the next two sundays as well.

this weekend i was meant to race yesterday with the south reading (pronounce 'redding') club yesterday and the chiltern hills today.

there wwas an accident on the M$ which made me late and i rushed to get out after everyone else had gone. i felt crap about it all again. i didn't wnat to bother.

the bike started first time and then after about 10 minutes started this stalling lark. sometimes minutes apart other times i could get 1/2 a lap.

the electrics are just so old and i have so little time to work on it at present.

i have fitted a nissin m/c and it has marginally more feel than the brembo - not a lot in it. however i will attempt to TRUST this m/c as with the brembo i had given up feeling it at all!

the suspension was poor up front with it bottoming out hard on 4/5/6 gear whoops and jumps.

anyway, half way through the 3-hour race i had the chain snap and come off. no other damage. it wasn't at the link it was through an ordinary plate through an eye. the bits of plate were skewed outwards.

a big rock methinks!!!

oh well! any suggestions on the leecy problems will be gratefully recieved. my money is on a poor connection somewhere and NOT the carb.

regards

Taffy
 
Re: Taff's racing diary for 2006

Taff

I don't want to jinx you or anything, but

SEM

SEM

SEM

SEM

I hope brother, but its the first thing I would do, try a different one.

fry
 
Re: Taff's racing diary for 2006

Taff,

As I was reading through your post the same thing that Lee already mentioned was circling my head.... SEM. Seems to me that I have heard many a stories about the bike running for periods of time with an unexplained stall.... kicking..... run for a little bit.... stall....kick.... run for a half day.... stall...... you get my point, and it turns out to be a SEM ignition taking a turn for the worse. Correct me if im wrong, but didn't you just replace your SEM in the last year or so? If it is not the SEM that is crappin out on you then my guess is a good as yours on this one. But like you said does sound like electrical, and as Fry mentioned, sounds like the SEM! Just my two cents.

Regards,
 
Re: Taff's racing diary for 2006

It's too bad about your hassle... :?
In addition to sandskippers post:
there's also a good chance of an
ignition coil malfunction.
 
Re: Taff's racing diary for 2006

thanks for the tips boys. of course it's been the first thing on my mind all along. but my dealer feels sure that when a SEM packs up it truly packs up and doesn't stall and then run again etc.

bobzilla's ignition pretty much just stopped and that was that. so i'll have a look through the archives for HOW the SEM's pack up but really- you know-if i had a new one it would be peace of mind wouldn't it!

maddel, my mate who is into the racing said coil first!

regards

Taffy
 
Re: Taff's racing diary for 2006

Hi Taffy

Not at all similar to your problem, but my old SEM worked great until temperature dropped below freezing. Very poor spark when cold starting. Fine after sitting in a warm garage. They seem to give out in many different ways. You might have a bad winding that is sometimes making connection and sometimes not. Perhaps with some oxidation. Higher revs and higher output might jump the fault and still give spark?

If you need to get a new one, I can give you the name of a swedish guy that has a few to sell w.o. the flywheel at a decent price. Got mine from him and I´m happy.
 
Re: Taff's racing diary for 2006

i've just been and checked and the wires to the regulator are in the right order but i have them from the left across. for those that don't know, there are 4 male connectors and only three wires. the left male spade should be free and then the next three across are taken up.

my spare post is the far right!

will this make a difference? i expect it will?

i've checked the stator and it just looks the same as usual - rough!

perhaps keith (sandskipper) or bundybear would like to set out the electrics a bit better in 'the doc' but i'm still noe the wiser for the cut n' paste that i did!

should i have all the wires from the stator connected given that i only run the engine and no electrics at all?

i don't have a multimeter but what are the numbers i should check for with the engine running and stopped?

regards

Taffy
 
Hiya Taff
You know i always plummet for the electrical answer to these problems. My gut feeling however in this instance is quality of petrol, air circulation of petrol or even just a dirty carb.
I know this sounds unlikely as you know your carbs !!!
But, we can all miss things ....
Have you tried adding octane booster to your petrol.
Have you checked your petrol cap is breathing correctly.
Is your carb 100% clean.

You probably shouting "Of Course I Have You Frig*^" id*+$ "
If so. Your SEM on its way out .....
But don't i recall you suggesting this a couple of months ago ....
and it wasn't.
Good luck Taff !
You deserve it.

Regards
Ady
PS. Sorry i didn't see you at Bannovallum, i'm often there.
 
taffy

i would suggest you inspect the petcocks on your fuel tank . you probably have anyway , but just an idea .
 
Taffy

You are right about how the SEM goes, its typically a go or no go issue. Maddel would have a better diagnosis by your description, with the failure and then after cooling, it works.

fry
 
Taffy, I don't know how much hair you have, but pull some out, it will help. I had a similar problem with a friends Berg. We installed my extra SEM, to no avail. You should always keep a spare! After much hair pulling, and neither of us has any to spare, I noticed a bulge in his gas cap vent hose. He said it was a clever product to minimize fuel loss when upside down, which he gets sometimes. It didn't let vapor through either way! I know someone already mentioned this, but the symptoms are eerily the same. Good luck!
 
Hey Taffy, I am with ADY. I can speek from experience with my 02. Every now and then it would go through a spell of stalling at low speed. One day I was looking at the seal for the intake manifold where it seals against the head. Being the paronoid type, I put a small bead of black RTV silicone sealant around the perimeter of the manifold. Suddenly my stalling went away, and my low speed throttle response was crisp, you may want to check it out.
 
Taffy,

Sorry to hear of your woes. My money is on the top coil malfuncitoning intermittently. I have had two top coils have problems, the first one when my 01 was brand new. As long as it wasn't ridden hard it was fine, but, as soon as you started riding it harder, it would be like some invisible finger would reach over and push the kill switch for a second. It was replaced under warranty. The second coil had some really weird things going on with it over the next three years. As long as I kept it in the low position there was never an issue. If I started using the high map, after about an hour or so, when I was off throttle and would just start to open the throttle, you could feel and hear the bike start to bog, give some more throttle and it would take off. This culminated in the bike just quitting one day, and then re starting after about 3 minutes, and then continued to the end of the race without a hiccup. After that, my bike was down for sometime during a rebuild, and when I was breaking the new motor in, after about an hour the bike just quit. I let it sit for about an hour and it restarted, ran for an hour and quit etc.... I talked with Dan @ Motoxotcia and he said it sounded like a top coil and that made sense to me in light of my previous experience. So I ordered up a new one and the first I noticed when it came was that it did not have the grey wire which is for the low map. I asked Dan about it and apparently the replacements no longer come with the High/Low map, it just has the High. Anyway, I put on the new coil and the bike has run flawlessly ever since. So eventually I'll get rid of the High/Low start switch combo and just go with a standard start button.

Hope this helps,
 
I feel for you old friend! The thought of replacing the SEM unit and the cost it is staggering! Good luck! Let me know what you find out, my 02 470 just doesn’t want to start any more. Unless it's dragged.
 
taffy,

I have replaced 3 stators, 1 on a 98 and 2 on an 02, and only one of them gave up the ghost easily(and that was from a bolt coming loose and actually breaking the stator as it vibrated in side the case). The other two gave me symptoms almost spot on as you are describing. I am far from a mechanic so take what I say with requisite grain of salt, but when I replaced them the bike ran fine again.
 
Re: Taff's racing diary for 2006

Taffy said:
i don't have a multimeter but what are the numbers i should check for with the engine running and stopped?

Taffy
Click to expand...

Have you checked the doc? :shock:

I feel for you Taffy. Nothing worse than hunting down a gremlin that works in mysterious ways such as cutting out for no apparent reason.

Log
 
found summink!

i went out lunchtime and found that the three wires to the four posts on the regulator are in the correct order but that alas i have them fitted from the left and that the right post is free!

a study of the manuual shows that infact the left post should be free and it's the next three that should be used!

another thing?
if you only use the the electrics for ignition: do you need all the wires from the stator connected or can you disconnect the yellow ones?

i've found that the clip twixt carb and manifold had slipped into the gap and all the rubber was pressed open. this must surely be the problem.

regards

Taffy
 
Taff,

Everything you said in your first post, and subsequent posts has raised a major "heat" related flag in my noggin. Starts fine, cold. AFter a lap, or being warm, doesn't want to start anymore, warm. Could you possibly test or confirm this to be true? If so, I would say it's an electrical problem :wink: . I would also agree with it being either coil or SEM. It could be a heat related mechanical issue with both, but external, like something needs a bit more mojo to keep it taught, tight, relieved, etc... Heat related issues can also come on in the same way, slowly (as opposed to the suggested "they go when they go", but that is also quite true). I'm going to put my money on the coil, and see if I (and the others) are correct since the suggested "they go when they go" statements seem to only be made about SEM's, not coils. Yeah, definately coil, yeah.

Did that make sense?

-Parsko
 
I would beleive that your prob lem is carburetor related. An all or nothing ignition failure as you have described is usually caused by an open winding in the pickup coil only. Ignition coil driver failures come on more slowly with rough running and backfires. Pilot jet circuit of vacuum leak is more likely to cause your problem. Also, a severly out-of- concentric crankshaft rotation can upset crank-triggered ignitions, but this would surely be accompanied by excessive vibration. My whole ignition is of 92 vintage and looks like H###l. I don't look so good myself anymore but I still work everyday. good luck,DC :D
 

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