Suspension Setups

Bilga · Jul 31, 2017

Just trying to compile some information together and asking for your guys setups.

For Reference, my bike is a Husaberg FE450 2013.

In the manual it suggests 33-35mm of sag, and 105-115mm of riding sag.

Have any of you deviated from these measurements, if so why and how has it changed your riding?

I've ready that more sag will make the ride softer, but too much will cause bottoming out. Less sag will make the ride a bit harsher, and a lot less will just make riding a chore.

I'm going to be playing with my sag this weekend and just wanted to get some information together from you guys.

Went through and set my forks, high and low speed shock all to the 'standard' settings in the manual seeing as the standard was set for an 85kg riding which is exactly me with all gear on. Will tweak as necessary after rides.

tourist · Jul 31, 2017

I have deviated

On my DRZ that is. It was fine

Sag will not make the bike harder or softer directly - unless there is a progressive spring.

In general terms it's kind of hard to explain what sag really does. The principal effect is just raising and lowering the bike. If you tip the bike forward then it handles quicker, and if you tip it rearward it steers heavier. Sag also changes where the central point of the stroke sits which affects traction. The Race Tech Suspension bible is pretty good! And the reading material on the Shim Restackor site: Shim ReStackor, Finally software to tune a shim stack

This goes for the DR-Z's linkage 'spension at least. Linkless progressive-spring suspension as might be on your bike will be a little bit different from what I know.

rosenberg 450 08 · Jul 31, 2017

Bilga said:
Just trying to compile some information together and asking for your guys setups.

For Reference, my bike is a Husaberg FE450 2013.

In the manual it suggests 33-35mm of sag, and 105-115mm of riding sag.

Have any of you deviated from these measurements, if so why and how has it changed your riding?

I've ready that more sag will make the ride softer, but too much will cause bottoming out. Less sag will make the ride a bit harsher, and a lot less will just make riding a chore.

I'm going to be playing with my sag this weekend and just wanted to get some information together from you guys.

Went through and set my forks, high and low speed shock all to the 'standard' settings in the manual seeing as the standard was set for an 85kg riding which is exactly me with all gear on. Will tweak as necessary after rides.

The so called sag is about so it will not top out in the shock, mainly to do with braking, so she does not bump out and this will upset the point of the dampers full job of being there in the first place.
But then again it's about your weight, if you can't get it right you need a stronger spring.
It's all about geometry get it wrong and she will not work at it's best handling position.
If you are within spec all is fine.
I had a 1999 Suzuki RMX 250 and cam from a 1996 and all was fine with the 1996 I could push it as hard as and all was fine, but the 1999 one was the worst bike I ever came across, the front forks were the same as the 96 spring rate and all, but it just wanted to fall over at anything and everything, but the geometry was different and I found I had to use stronger front springs and bingo she was then spot on.
It cost me over $100,000 to find that out that year and the first days ride out I was trying to set it all up and could not work it out, I had never herd of such a thing as to why it was wanting to fall over, and I mean f it was fast the way it wanted to fall over, I came on a dirt road and hit a stone about 20mm high coming around a bend at about 100KM/H just taking it easy and bang I was on the ground sliding along and hit a brick with my elbow and smashed it to pieces even with armour on.
I did not think that it needed a stronger front springs because the 96 was the exact same fork and all.

I bought a new Suzuki DRZ 400E once and had to up rate the front springs so I asked what was best I do, I said this is the weight I am and the spring company says X the dude said no that's too strong a spring because his Honda XR spring rate is x so it will be fine for my DRZ and me, but no I was correct and I had to go too what the spring mob pointed out was for me, so it cost me another set of springs and the experimenting with valves etc cost was all up around $2000 that I pissed up the wall.
That bastard bike was called the milk crate.

I have learnt not to trust anyone, be it the people who's job it is, that work is with suspension and all, the same is with cars, just f whits ! that spin **** that cost big $ but the thing is when people are not experienced riders or drivers as myself how would such people know any better. it's nothing but piss boys everywhere who don't know **** from clay and don't care but just flog off BS just to make more money.

I have found that you need people who race to do work on your Car or bike and are keen, not just some dopy drongo mechanic **** for brains who can't thing beyond basic crap.

Taffy · Aug 1, 2017

well I used to race, I I developed my own suspension, I do customers work and they love it. i recognised the disgruntled views of those above. there is a lot of ******** around as suspension in my opinion is objective and not subjective.

but your race sag want to be nearer 100mm on the rear and 65-70mm on the front. use a stiff spring mildly preloaded and don't go by Sag.

just go by race sag and spring preload. you won't hear this advice anywhere else so i realise I'm fighting a losing battle but it works for me and all my customers love my suspension.

and because you're in OZ I'm not even trying to get your money....just tell you it how it is.

Taffy

rosenberg 450 08 · Aug 1, 2017

Taffy said:
well I used to race, I I developed my own suspension, I do customers work and they love it. i recognised the disgruntled views of those above. there is a lot of ******** around as suspension in my opinion is objective and not subjective.

but your race sag want to be nearer 100mm on the rear and 65-70mm on the front. use a stiff spring mildly preloaded and don't go by Sag.

just go by race sag and spring preload. you won't hear this advice anywhere else so i realise I'm fighting a losing battle but it works for me and all my customers love my suspension.

and because you're in OZ I'm not even trying to get your money....just tell you it how it is.

Taffy

I agree with you their but as a normal point of view of the average person to try to set it up for their weight the set sag is what they are looking to get right with the setup firstly and it's not a in depth but a ball park position for Joe Blow.

I was not pointing out any one in general with setting up suspensions but as a general rule, and as a rule if such a dude can't ride well then how the hell does he know what he is truly doing in depth. it's the same with engines so twits think it's all about maxim top end power and one ends up with a **** box to ride. hell I had a RM125S back in the day and that was all power or nothing.

tourist · Aug 2, 2017

Taffy said:
but your race sag want to be nearer 100mm on the rear and 65-70mm on the front. use a stiff spring mildly preloaded and don't go by Sag.

just go by race sag and spring preload. you won't hear this advice anywhere else so i realise I'm fighting a losing battle but it works for me and all my customers love my suspension.

To be on the safe side, I'd propose anyone to doubt the amout of suspension customers Taffy has, let alone happy customers

Just to clarify: Race sag and free sag is a straight-up function of spring stiffness and preload - you know, like, objectively - so at the same time as I am amused by your losing battle, I enter one of my own: This fight is against yourself

Contra-diction is such an interesting word. You know, talking about ********

I do however agree with springs on the stiffer side - and valving to suit. I point again to the excellent writing on shimrestackor.com, this page in particular: Spring Rate Selection

The Shim Restackor documentation is quite technical, and the writing is clumsy in some places, and felt like it went way over my head the first time - but you still take away some good knowledge even after the first read.

The RaceTech Suspension Bible is really truly worth a read. I know Taffy's read it, he has even posted direct quotes from it from time to time even though he forgot to mention the source

That has to be a no-******** recommendation

tl;dr - Spring to weight, approximately. Don't sweat it. Then set sag basically as you like. You'll find that the Husabergs handle well at the stock settings. A bit on the stable side (which I prefer - many don't). And indeed race sag in attack position is where it's at. The question is 'why?', or 'how?' - And! Free sag within spec is a strong rule-of-thumb that the whole system is set up well.

Taffy · Aug 2, 2017

you don't half talk some **** Tourist.

I've never ever, ever read anything at all ever by racetech. the views I have are those I have gained through my own experience so cut that crap out for a start.

secondly, I made it clear i don't have any interest whatsoever in 'sag' or 'static sag'. so quite why you then drag that in I don't know?

I have done many, many set ups for racing or enduro. quite what qualifies you I don't know to say anything you have? what qualifies you?

I do suspension as we speak for sidecarcross drivers.

and of course we have the line from my friend that my FE400e BEARUP was simply the best handling bike he'd ever ridden.

people don't want to come on here and say anything because arseholes like you always have to phuq everything up in the end. I do 60 parcels a week. that could be 50 upset customers but it isn't?

this is the thread I started many years ago as I set about teaching myself suspension. people like me put up info so that people like YOU can just sit there and throw stones... http://husaberg.org/suspension/2910-fork-tuning-enduros.html

i ask again, what gives you any authority, moral or otherwise to suggest that i'm further away from getting suspension right than you?

tourist · Aug 2, 2017

paolo6 · Aug 2, 2017

the 4 picture of death

bilga...my 2cent sometimes a comfortable set is not actually the most performing it does depend a lot how fast you going if you are average person go softer, if you fast stiffer (fork, shock set up)

owner's manual is a good check...more sag the bike is more stable when riding fast(115), less will steer better(105) your choice
(you can even try 95 and 120 I wouldn't go 120 but you can try ) look for a feeling compromise

you saying you are going out to mess around this weekend bring a book with you and make sure you write everything down in case also something went wrong and you need to bring it back to normal

rosenberg 450 08 · Aug 2, 2017

When it comes down to setups, I am old and Roo Ted knees and back are RS so I have had to go with less compression than I should and I am 130KG and use the stock springs, I just back off when it comes to something I have to slow down for.
I went riding with slow riders in a spot I did not know the tracks and bugger that, riding as slow as them was a real pain as it hammered the body, I tend to poke along quickly and just float over all the crap as that makes it easy work than bashing into every little bump on the bloody track.

I find a lot tend to be holding what must be a death grip on the bars and end up with arm pump and have to rest up all the time when doing long rides.
The only time I got arm pump was the first ride on my Berg and I thought what the hell is this at the end of 4 hours ride. but when I worked out the suspension damping it was all was good, she had just to much compression at the settings.
I don't grab onto the bars or use the clutch at all unless needed and use 1 finger or 2 on the front brake, but when riding some others bikes I am like WTF the front brake is hard as hell and not smooth but notched in feel, one dude had the rear brake peddle set that low it was just so foolish. it was micks Honda CR500 and he shot off on my bike doing his old head start Harry trick, so I am in hot pursuit and come the first corner at high speed in top gear coming up to it and I am like fucck this thing has no brakes and there is a big drop off and a mountain wall to run into.

not to mention miles from nowhere and I could see here we go, the trouble of getting to hospital and all flash before me, but I made it through the corner only just.
I pointed out what a tosser he was when we got back to camp, no one sets a bike up like that mick it's total BS and he argued with me about it FFS! no one has a rear brake peddle sitting down that low, it was about a inch and a half lower than standard height and service ya brake cables and pivots ya moron.

It just goes to show just how badly setup some bikes are not to mention how they are hammering themselves.
I get people in their 20's grumbling about how hot it is and want to get back to camp and I say we have only came half way bro not to mention mick always claiming that them cold beers are calling him doesn't help.

So all in all it also comes down to who is riding this bike, a plodder type or a good rider or a master like Toby Price.
Now Toby would not ride a bike setup for the likes of anything but a master rider and any less a rider maybe would not like the way his bike is setup to ride themselves. so it's in fact another ball game we are then talking about in all when it comes to suspension setups. like who is riding this thing becomes the point and what's he doing with it.

Dude come saying that X did the suspension and are blown away with the results and that's all good, but you know what, even I have brought out the old screwdriver out in the bush, just to adjust the damping with a couple of clicks, to have the rider spin out saying just how good it transformed the bike.

Taffy · Aug 3, 2017

rosenberg 450 08 said:
When it comes down to setups, I am old and Roo Ted knees and back are RS so I have had to go with less compression than I should and I am 130KG and use the stock springs, I just back off when it comes to something I have to slow down for.
I went riding with slow riders in a spot I did not know the tracks and bugger that, riding as slow as them was a real pain as it hammered the body, I tend to poke along quickly and just float over all the crap as that makes it easy work than bashing into every little bump on the bloody track.

I find a lot tend to be holding what must be a death grip on the bars and end up with arm pump and have to rest up all the time when doing long rides.
The only time I got arm pump was the first ride on my Berg and I thought what the hell is this at the end of 4 hours ride. but when I worked out the suspension damping it was all was good, she had just to much compression at the settings.
I don't grab onto the bars or use the clutch at all unless needed and use 1 finger or 2 on the front brake, but when riding some others bikes I am like WTF the front brake is hard as hell and not smooth but notched in feel, one dude had the rear brake peddle set that low it was just so foolish. it was micks Honda CR500 and he shot off on my bike doing his old head start Harry trick, so I am in hot pursuit and come the first corner at high speed in top gear coming up to it and I am like fucck this thing has no brakes and there is a big drop off and a mountain wall to run into. not to mention miles from nowhere and I could see here we go, the trouble of getting to hospital and all flash before me, but I made it through the corner only just.
I pointed out what a tosser he was when we got back to camp, no one sets a bike up like that mick it's total BS and he argued with me about it FFS! no one has a rear brake peddle sitting down that low, it was about a inch and a half lower than standard height and service ya brake cables and pivots ya moron.

It just goes to show just how badly setup some bikes are not to mention how they are hammering themselves.
I get people in their 20's grumbling about how hot it is and want to get back to camp and I say we have only came half way bro not to mention mick always claiming that them cold beers are calling him doesn't help.

So all in all it also comes down to who is riding this bike, a plodder type or a good rider or a master like Toby Price.
Now Toby would not ride a bike setup for the likes of anything but a master rider and any less a rider maybe would not like the way his bike is setup to ride themselves. so it's in fact another ball game we are then talking about in all when it comes to suspension setups. like who is riding this thing becomes the point and what's he doing with it.

Dude come saying that X did the suspension and are blown away with the results and that's all good, but you know what, even I have brought out the old screwdriver out in the bush, just to adjust the damping with a couple of clicks, to have the rider spin out saying just how good it transformed the bike.

it's worth pointing out that a spring is consistant at any speed or at least relative too the damping which because it has a free bleed route means that damping is very soft at low speeds relative to higher speeds when it is forced through the shim stacks!

regards

Taffy

FE350 · Aug 3, 2017

http://husaberg.org/suspension/20205-setting-sag.html#post159894

A little info on sag might help.

FE350 · Aug 3, 2017

Just reading through this again.

I saw a little note on setting it to who is riding. A master or newbie ???? This has nothing to do with anything. Sag must be set correctly for safe operation of the suspension and nothing more. It don't matter if I am old and sore, or young and fit. A professional will know what they need and tune to it. Most of the time the sag stays the same, the dampening is what changes.

I have seen tons of people loosen the spring to lower the bike, this is not how it works. The spring sag will not make for a smoother ride and or comfy ride, it has nothing to do with feel.

Sag works in with dampening together. But sag needs to be set correctly, then play with the dampening to get your plush ride. Spring slop is very unsafe and can make the bike feel as if it is on ice, very loose on the back end. Sag is important factory to traction as well. Sag should be set very close to spec.

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Suspension Setups

Bilga

tourist

rosenberg 450 08

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