I have a 2008 FE 450 and was wondering if anyone is using the Scott's SS oil filters? If so, how long and any problems with them?
thanks
HusaRod
thanks
HusaRod
gday there rod,
mate, i have had my berg for the past 3-4 years now,i've have had a stainless steel oil filter in it the entire time and i must say i recon they are great.i just wash it out with petrol & then blow it out with the compressor.
can't go wrong.
certainly, if you are planning to keep the bike for a few years,the extra cost of the inital outlay would recovered.
..weed..
mate, i have had my berg for the past 3-4 years now,i've have had a stainless steel oil filter in it the entire time and i must say i recon they are great.i just wash it out with petrol & then blow it out with the compressor.
can't go wrong.
certainly, if you are planning to keep the bike for a few years,the extra cost of the inital outlay would recovered.
..weed..
I've been able to build motors, run stainless filters for several years and then tear those motors down for inspection. I've not seen any ill effects of using the stainless.
My personal opinion is that if you are quick to change oil, then stainless is great. If you lag on maintenance and stretch oil changes out, then paper may be a better option.
My personal opinion is that if you are quick to change oil, then stainless is great. If you lag on maintenance and stretch oil changes out, then paper may be a better option.
I've been running these filters in my Berg's since 02 and the same filter fits them all the way up to the 09's if I am not mistaken.
Everytime I have taken a motor in for PM tear down it looks like brand new inside. And for full disclosure, I change my oil often. If you don't change your oil often, the paper filters will get clogged and the bypass will open allowing unfiltered oil to pass through your engine.
The Scott's brand filter is the only one to get, the other knock offs use inferior components and will eventually lead to problems, like the use of inferior epoxy's that will fail during high heat situations where the Scott's does not.
The Scott's filter, filters down to 35 microns absolute. That means nothing 35 microns or larger will pass through this filter. Some will argue that paper filters filter down to 13 microns, that's true to an extent, the same paper filter that filters down to 13 also has holes in excess of 100 microns or larger.
The Scotts stainless filters have superior cold flow qualities as well, in other words the pressure will not build up high enough during cold start up to lift the bypass valve allowing unfiltered oil through your oiling system. Where as paper filters will have this problem.
With all due respect, I do not see where the debate is on this subject, every racing tean that I know of, off road race trucks, marine, road racing, drag racing etc all use stainless filters.
Dale
Everytime I have taken a motor in for PM tear down it looks like brand new inside. And for full disclosure, I change my oil often. If you don't change your oil often, the paper filters will get clogged and the bypass will open allowing unfiltered oil to pass through your engine.
The Scott's brand filter is the only one to get, the other knock offs use inferior components and will eventually lead to problems, like the use of inferior epoxy's that will fail during high heat situations where the Scott's does not.
The Scott's filter, filters down to 35 microns absolute. That means nothing 35 microns or larger will pass through this filter. Some will argue that paper filters filter down to 13 microns, that's true to an extent, the same paper filter that filters down to 13 also has holes in excess of 100 microns or larger.
The Scotts stainless filters have superior cold flow qualities as well, in other words the pressure will not build up high enough during cold start up to lift the bypass valve allowing unfiltered oil through your oiling system. Where as paper filters will have this problem.
With all due respect, I do not see where the debate is on this subject, every racing tean that I know of, off road race trucks, marine, road racing, drag racing etc all use stainless filters.
Dale
Dale
That was the answer I was looking for, I am going to buy the Scott's filter and start using. Nice meeting you at the Husaberg ride.
Rod G
That was the answer I was looking for, I am going to buy the Scott's filter and start using. Nice meeting you at the Husaberg ride.
Rod G
HusaRod said:
You are welcome Rod. It was nice meeting you too. I wish I would have had more time to just hang out and not be a busy body.
FYI, the knock off brands of stainless filters use an epoxy that gets soft at like 300 degrees, where as the Scott's epoxy is rated for 600 degrees. Scott's has done extensive research on all the available filters on the market today and some of the results are quite surprising when it comes to quality of construction and filtration properties.
I would suggest that when you clean your filter, use Lectra Motive contact cleaner by CRC. Use the provided straw and clean it from the inside out.
I also cut the air pressure down on my air line to like 40 psi when I'm blowing it out, from the inside out.
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
FWIW the "bypass" valve does not bypass the filter it simply returns oil to the gearbox
so the engine proper can't ever get "unfiltered" oil.
I'm mucking about with the oil pump at the moment so I'l be able to say soon if the scotts improves oil pressure at cold startup over a paper filter. my gut feeling is that it does not.
what I have found is the bypass valve opens at 8 PSI but we still get 20 -30 so there may be gains from adding a stiffer spring to the valve.
most of the stuff scotts claims as advantages can be disproved in the specific case of the husaberg and for the record, the oem paper filters do a better job below 35 microns where the scotts does no job. ie in theory it cannot stop a particle less than 35 microns and if you measure the oem paper ones they most definetly do not have 100 micron holes the biggest I've seen is 40.
also consider that a long slender particle 100 microns long and 30 micron diameter is more likely to be trapped by the furry characteristics of a paper filter than the perfectly aligned straight through holes of the stainless mesh.
obviously the scotts is cabable of a higher flow rate, however this is also obviously only an advantage if the paper one is restricting the flow. this is highly unlikely given the discharge area of the oil jets is so tiny compared to the size of the filter.
BUT......... and also just FWIW, I use a scotts. its good enough and it beats buying paper ones
so the engine proper can't ever get "unfiltered" oil.
I'm mucking about with the oil pump at the moment so I'l be able to say soon if the scotts improves oil pressure at cold startup over a paper filter. my gut feeling is that it does not.
what I have found is the bypass valve opens at 8 PSI but we still get 20 -30 so there may be gains from adding a stiffer spring to the valve.
most of the stuff scotts claims as advantages can be disproved in the specific case of the husaberg and for the record, the oem paper filters do a better job below 35 microns where the scotts does no job. ie in theory it cannot stop a particle less than 35 microns and if you measure the oem paper ones they most definetly do not have 100 micron holes the biggest I've seen is 40.
also consider that a long slender particle 100 microns long and 30 micron diameter is more likely to be trapped by the furry characteristics of a paper filter than the perfectly aligned straight through holes of the stainless mesh.
obviously the scotts is cabable of a higher flow rate, however this is also obviously only an advantage if the paper one is restricting the flow. this is highly unlikely given the discharge area of the oil jets is so tiny compared to the size of the filter.
BUT......... and also just FWIW, I use a scotts. its good enough and it beats buying paper ones
thats an interesting point you made there bushy.
i suppose it doesn't matter if you clean the filter out every oil chage anyway.still i don't like the idea of any oil getting bypassed back down to the gearbox(8psi sounds a bit piss poor).the more oil pressure fed through the bigend & rockers the better.
more bypass= less lubrication to these vital parts.
thats another one to look into next pull down.
the silvery stuff thats gets washed out of my washable filter is that fine you can barely see it held up to the light & rubbing it between your fingers can't hardly even feel.
in my book thats good.35 microns doesn't really mean a real lot only tech jibber.
i'd be more worried about $hit getting through the air filter than through a stainless gause oil filter.
..weed..
Here we go with this debate again. It can be found on many websites all over the place. For the record I have both a Scotts and a PC racing in my two bikes. I can see very little difference in my hand between the two, both made in USA both welded surgical stainless steel. Huge difference in price but to be honest with you I would buy the Scotts as they have supported the FR3 in a big way and it's good to return the favour. If there's is such a small or no difference between paper and stainless do it for the environment!
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
don't need to pull it down, the ball and spring can be removed easily through the hex plug
yeah 8psi is piss poor, what it tells us though is that its open at startup before the engine proper recieves good oil pressure, if the scotts improves that then great but I think really there is more to gain from simply making the relief valve open at a higher pressure.
the stainless filters are fine Its amusing though when everyone believes impressive claims that do not apply, like the bypass thing.
Many years ago I had problems with seizing valve followers on my GPZ1100B2. I eventually determined that it was most likely a porous crankcase dumping oil back to the sump after the oil pump. Sold it!
OTTOMH the spec oil pressure was 3.5 psi, yes 3.5 psi, and with very accurate pressure gauges I had access to at the time plumbed into the system I measured 2.5 psi. The oil pump and blow off all checked out fine, but the full pressure wasn't getting to the main gallery, and therefore the head. OK most of the time, but when hot and being revved, it'd nip a follower, with a bent valve sometimes resulting, otherwise just a loose tappet sound for a moment. Very frustrating, and expensive, at the time.
Bottom line, 3.5 psi was considered enough by Kawasaki to lube the 1100 4 cyl.
Steve
OTTOMH the spec oil pressure was 3.5 psi, yes 3.5 psi, and with very accurate pressure gauges I had access to at the time plumbed into the system I measured 2.5 psi. The oil pump and blow off all checked out fine, but the full pressure wasn't getting to the main gallery, and therefore the head. OK most of the time, but when hot and being revved, it'd nip a follower, with a bent valve sometimes resulting, otherwise just a loose tappet sound for a moment. Very frustrating, and expensive, at the time.
Bottom line, 3.5 psi was considered enough by Kawasaki to lube the 1100 4 cyl.
Steve
FWIW,
Here's the spec from the 09 manual on checking the oil pressure, measured at the cam chain tensioner.
1500 rpm-coolant 70C= 19-33 psi
5000 rpm-coolant 70C= 44-58 psi
And I stand corrected. I reviewed the oil system schematic and I agree when the by pass opens it does return oil to the sump.
Here's the spec from the 09 manual on checking the oil pressure, measured at the cam chain tensioner.
1500 rpm-coolant 70C= 19-33 psi
5000 rpm-coolant 70C= 44-58 psi
And I stand corrected. I reviewed the oil system schematic and I agree when the by pass opens it does return oil to the sump.
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
ahh so they've upped the pressure for the new model
very nice, its on here somewhere that lineaweaver measured 14Psi at 3000rpm, I guess thats on a 600.
its funny about low oil pressures steve I have an old VH4d air cooled V4 wisconsin in a bobcat, it has just 2 tapered rollers for the mains and plain bearing rod big ends, the oil pressure spec is 4.5 Psi. doesn't seem like enough for plain big ends but it works.
Weed the piston to liner clearence spec is 0.04mm thats 40 microns. in my books ideally a 35 micron particle should not be allowed into the engine. in real life use though I think the engine produces a lot of particles internally that are over 35 microns from normal wear so its like a dingo proof fence don't really work if the dingos live on the wrong side.
very nice, its on here somewhere that lineaweaver measured 14Psi at 3000rpm, I guess thats on a 600.
its funny about low oil pressures steve I have an old VH4d air cooled V4 wisconsin in a bobcat, it has just 2 tapered rollers for the mains and plain bearing rod big ends, the oil pressure spec is 4.5 Psi. doesn't seem like enough for plain big ends but it works.
Weed the piston to liner clearence spec is 0.04mm thats 40 microns. in my books ideally a 35 micron particle should not be allowed into the engine. in real life use though I think the engine produces a lot of particles internally that are over 35 microns from normal wear so its like a dingo proof fence don't really work if the dingos live on the wrong side.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
as usual bling wins over facts.
now we buy a product coz the packaging is pretty and they supported FR3!
well i think you're all wrong!
scots are celts like the welsh, go back hundreds of years and we shgared the same wild boar at the cave entrance.
therefore i declare my support of scotts oil filters!
PS: i think those that have had rebuilds ought to admit it and not declare a perfectly clean sheet......
that's if we are after the truth!
regards
Taffy
now we buy a product coz the packaging is pretty and they supported FR3!
well i think you're all wrong!
scots are celts like the welsh, go back hundreds of years and we shgared the same wild boar at the cave entrance.
therefore i declare my support of scotts oil filters!
PS: i think those that have had rebuilds ought to admit it and not declare a perfectly clean sheet......
that's if we are after the truth!
regards
Taffy
Taffy said:
If I read you right...........
The last rebuild I did was on the 04 550-broken exhaust valve spring was the cause. Also found one bad crank seal, and intakes slightly worn.
The inside of the cases were spotless and all bearings were in great shape.
Well i'm very patriotic cos i use a Brita filter. It doesnt quite fit but you can make up the difference with a teabag.
Make sure its tetleys though, the triangular ones, they go down to 20 microns.
Ok, ok i wouldnt like it if i started the thread . But Taffy started it and got me going !
Make sure its tetleys though, the triangular ones, they go down to 20 microns.
Ok, ok i wouldnt like it if i started the thread . But Taffy started it and got me going !
bushy, the old 644 cases lack a couple of little extras the later model 450/550/628 cases have.1 is the access to the relief valve(nothing there) 2 no magnetic sump bung(nothing there)
3 accessible clutch without taking lh side cover off & 4 no coolant bleeder in the head.
i think it really depends on the design of the motor if much oil pressure is needed.
obvoiusly a wet sump motor like the 01-08 berg doesn't rely totally on oil pressure for lubrication within crankcase & gearbox.there is that much oil getting splashed around the gearbox & crankcase to lube things.
the wr's for example have a dry sump & dry gearbox.the motor relys totally on oil pressure feeding jets in the gearbox & crankcase for lubrication.no doubt a 20mm oil pump impellor wouldn't cut it on that type of motor.
one of the old tractors we had had a scoop on the crank to scoop oil up & splash it around the crankcase & those old things almost last forever with hardly any oil pressure.
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3 accessible clutch without taking lh side cover off & 4 no coolant bleeder in the head.
i think it really depends on the design of the motor if much oil pressure is needed.
obvoiusly a wet sump motor like the 01-08 berg doesn't rely totally on oil pressure for lubrication within crankcase & gearbox.there is that much oil getting splashed around the gearbox & crankcase to lube things.
the wr's for example have a dry sump & dry gearbox.the motor relys totally on oil pressure feeding jets in the gearbox & crankcase for lubrication.no doubt a 20mm oil pump impellor wouldn't cut it on that type of motor.
one of the old tractors we had had a scoop on the crank to scoop oil up & splash it around the crankcase & those old things almost last forever with hardly any oil pressure.
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