Rear slides all over the place

Bilga · Feb 24, 2018

Hey Guys,

I'm currently trying to troubleshoot my 2013 Husaberg FE450 regarding the suspension / handling.

Since I've purchased my bike I've felt uncomfortable on the bike. It doesn't seem to 'Dig in and Grip the track and I don't feel in control.

I've noticed the back sits up rather high and am wondering if this could be a contributing factor.

The spring that is in the bike is is the standard 75 - 85 KG spring.

With full riding gear equipped, I weigh around 85KG.

I've also been told by a few friends that my handlebars are too low and they've suggested bar raisers but I'm not to sure on what they do to the handling of the bike.

What I've currently done;

Adjusted low speed compression of shock absorber back to standard (20 clicks)
Adjusted high speed compression of shock abosorber back to standard (1.5 turns)
Adjusted rebound damping of shock to standard (24 clicks)
Adjusted the compression of damping fork to standard (22 Clicks)
Adjusted rebound damping of fork to standard (18 clicks)

If anyone can shed some light I'd be really happy, it's making me feel uncomfortable, unsafe and I'm not looking forward to riding.

Cheers blokes.

WArdogG · Feb 24, 2018

Have you checked the static and rider sag? How much preload is on the rear spring? Sometimes a heavier rider will preload the hell out of the standard spring to try and compensate for not having the correct spring fitted. This usually causes the the static sag to go to zero, which will have all manner of unpleasantness in the handling. Also check the rear is not "bouncy", which indicates the rear shock may be in need of a rebuild. When you compress the rear it should return to normal in one smooth motion, and not bounce up and down a few times before settling. Its also possible that the fault lies in the front suspension, causing the bike to be unbalanced, and it may feel like the fault is with the rear suspension, which is not always the case. As I recall some people had issues with the 4CS suspension(I think it had to do with the needle breaking, or becoming stuck), and losing damping as a result, causing the front to become very soft, having a seesaw effect in the suspension, when acccelerating and braking, and especially in the transition between the two.

Its also possible its none of what I've mentioned here, but something else, so try and pinpoint if its the front, or rear, or both, and take it from there.

When you stand next to the bike and press down on the footrest, the front and rear suspension should compress more or less equally. A bias to either side might help put you in the right direction.

There are some good threads on here regarding suspension setup, check them out to help point you in the right direction.

Bilga · Feb 25, 2018

WArdogG said:
Have you checked the static and rider sag? How much preload is on the rear spring? Sometimes a heavier rider will preload the hell out of the standard spring to try and compensate for not having the correct spring fitted. This usually causes the the static sag to go to zero, which will have all manner of unpleasantness in the handling. Also check the rear is not "bouncy", which indicates the rear shock may be in need of a rebuild. When you compress the rear it should return to normal in one smooth motion, and not bounce up and down a few times before settling. Its also possible that the fault lies in the front suspension, causing the bike to be unbalanced, and it may feel like the fault is with the rear suspension, which is not always the case. As I recall some people had issues with the 4CS suspension(I think it had to do with the needle breaking, or becoming stuck), and losing damping as a result, causing the front to become very soft, having a seesaw effect in the suspension, when acccelerating and braking, and especially in the transition between the two.

Its also possible its none of what I've mentioned here, but something else, so try and pinpoint if its the front, or rear, or both, and take it from there.

When you stand next to the bike and press down on the footrest, the front and rear suspension should compress more or less equally. A bias to either side might help put you in the right direction.

There are some good threads on here regarding suspension setup, check them out to help point you in the right direction.

The rear returns to normal in one smooth motion, and the front suspension seems all a okay.

I haven't checked the spring preload, nor the rider & static sag as I haven't had a helping hand to do so.

This will be my next cause of action.

Alan · Feb 25, 2018

You are wasting your time if you haven’t checked/set your sags, all three front and rear. It will help determine if your springs are of the correct ‘weight’. If they are then sags set correctly should have the ‘balance’ right. Then take your compression/rebound front and rear back to the standard settings taking it from there.

Sliding around? That’s a good thing...take control of it and use it to rear steer.

383hq · Feb 25, 2018

Start with the basics.
Comfortable riding position for sitting OR standing

Next:
What tyres
What psi ?
What terrain ?

Then set up sag

Then play with fork position/suspension settings.

tourist · Feb 25, 2018

In addition to a general +1 to everything (except I'd at least roughly verify sag as the first thing to do)

- Can you describe the sliding a bit better?

A lack of grip on the rear wheel can be because the rear suspension is too stiff, or stuck - it needs to follow the ground to get traction. Both the wheel and the mass of the bike. If the rear is stiff and the rear end's mass is catapulted up when riding over bumps, then that impacts rear grip. If the rear wheel doesn't follow pits and indentations in the surface, then that's also a lack of grip.

Weight balance has an effect too - given the constant weight of bike and rider, and a certain speed and grip, then the wheel which has more weight over it has more grip.

In addition, if the bike is tilted forwards, then front wheel trail is reduced - which reduces the self-aligning effect of the ground on a side-steered front wheel as the wheel goes over the ground.

I'd think it was a combination of these things: The rear suspension is stiffer than it should be for some reason, then the bike is tilted forward which reduces weight on the rear and also makes the bike steer flightier.

Tires overinflated? Tires too new? Too rounded or old and rubber hardened?

Try to get to swap bikes with mates - compare the difference, and ask them to describe it. More perspectives can help flush out a simple-complex issue like this.

FE350 · Feb 25, 2018

They feel loose no matter what you do. It takes some getting use to. But things you want to check.

Tire pressure will make a world of difference.

But start from the basics. Set all setting to factory including air pressure. Make sure your sag is set as this is the most important thing, you cant change anything to correct if the sag is way out. Is the rear spring soft? Is there any fork/shock leaks? Has the bike been lowered? Has the suspension been played with by the last owner? Allot of factors that need to be verified prior fixing anything. The key is to find the problem before trying to fix it. You can change everything and all the settings only to find a seized bushing or low fluid etc. find the root by starting at square one.

Have the front shocks been moved in the trees? They should sit almost flush about 2mm or so. If they have been pulled up than it can seem your bars are low and this can make a huge issue. The factory bars are quite low but by no means a problem for a standard rider 5' to 6'0". Your weight should be fine for that spring as it will handle a tad more than advertised.

RogerB39 · Feb 25, 2018

These bikes are very sensitive to rear sag.
I personally found the factory sag to be too much, which in my case cause the front end to wander. It needed constant correction in slow technical climbs, for instance.
On professional advice, I set the loaded sag somewhere around 90-95mm. (I think factory was 100-110 if memory serves)
Try to match the feel/speed of compression and rebound front to rear.
How old is the rear tire? What kind of tire is it? PSI?

Bilga · Feb 26, 2018

Is there a reason that the husaberg owners manual recommends 105 - 115mm of sag where as everywhere online refers to the recommended / most common sag to be of 100mm?

TomTom · Feb 26, 2018

Re clicks its very much personal preference, so bring a screwdriver with you on the bike and find out what you like. Make some radical settings to get a feel for what does what and then work your way to a compromise.
I like to ride with the rear rebound tight so that is one thing you can try, try 7 clicks and see what gives.

RogerB39 · Feb 26, 2018

As far as why the factory recommended rear sag doesn’t seem to work, your guess is as good as mine. I do know less sag worked better for me, on the trail and racing Supermoto.
Just the way the chassis works.
I also ran 14mm triples for supermoto, and they worked great in the woods as well. Never felt the need to change them back when trail riding.

Bilga · Feb 26, 2018

Alright so I've just measured the unladen sag (on a stand) & laden (on the ground, bike supporting only it's own weight - after pushing down a few times and letting the suspension settle).

Here is the results.

Unladen - 691mm (from center of rear axle to bottom of a point i've marked on rear fender)
Laden - 649mm (from center of rear axle to bottom of the same point i've marked and measured the unladen measurement).

From this we see there is a whopping 42mm of static sag.

This seems like a massive amount considering I've read numerous amounts that the static sag should be between 10-30mm.

Is this a result of the spring being preloaded massively?

What is the cause of action to take from here?

Obviously I still need to measure the rider sag once I've geared up and got a hand from some friends.

RogerB39 · Feb 27, 2018

If I'm reading that correctly, you don't have enough static sag...you need MORE preload.
If it's got too much sag, (not enough preload) it'll definitely handle like crap.

tourist · Feb 27, 2018

Preloading stores energy in the spring. That energy will at rest push the bike up. By adding preload you reduce static sag. I think. This stuff always gets me confused.

Static sag is somewhat meaningless though; It’s active riding sag that’s important. Static sag is, ok, not strictly meaningless but only a secondary metric.

The manual recommends, what, 30mm? Try that!

RogerB39 · Feb 27, 2018

Tourist is correct...the sag while on the bike is far more important.
Try around 95mm, then go more or less from there.
Good luck!

Bilga · Feb 27, 2018

RogerB39 said:
If I'm reading that correctly, you don't have enough static sag...you need MORE preload.
If it's got too much sag, (not enough preload) it'll definitely handle like crap.

Ah yes, that makes more sense.

Tighten the spring so it doesn't sag as much.

It seems I've got a good 12-17mm of play to work with so I'm assuming this spring is going to be the correct weight for me.

This weekend I'll set my rider sag and let you all know how I go.

Cheers.

On another note,

What tire pressure are you running in the front and rear for enduro / trail riding.

The owner's manual says 15 psi front & rear but I've found that to be a bit hard (possibly because of my current ****** suspension set up) and have been running 13-14 front & 10-12 rear.

bergbro · Feb 28, 2018

Bilga bro.
You need to be in the middle 50% of adjustment on your spring.
If you have to wind it up more than 75% of the adjustment then you need a heavier spring (like wise if you need to adjust the spring to under 25% of the available adjustment then you need a lighter spring).

As mentioned above..... rider sag is the important measurement to establish correct spring rate and all other settings follw on from there.

Bilga · Mar 1, 2018

I've set my rider sag to 100mm.

The *** of the bike is now really high and the spring is preloaded a fair amount.

Does anyone know the cause of action from here?

Image is attached to this post.

Alan · Mar 2, 2018

Suspension and Springs

tourist · Mar 2, 2018

Bilga said:
I've set my rider sag to 100mm.

The *** of the bike is now really high and the spring is preloaded a fair amount.

Does anyone know the cause of action from here?

Image is attached to this post.

How does it feel to ride now?

These bikes have unusually long rear suspension travel, 335mm. A rule of thumb for rear race sag is around 1/3rd of travel - 111mm in this case. If it feels flighty then I'd consider dropping the rear down further. There are no hard and fast rules for sag! Just what works. (On my DRZ I've taken the race sag down to like 40% of travel. It's fine.)

How is the setup of the front forks in the clamps? High or low?

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Rear slides all over the place

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