race bikes vs friendly race bikes

Hi tm-enduro!

I truly respect your opinion, and would love to continue the debate since I believe it is a very important one.
However, it has become so infected that I will refrain from such at the moment. There are people with high stakes at the table. I have just an opinion, a motorcycle and a wish for all to end well.

Take care,
Peter

I never felt you were making a jab at Husaberg. Quite the opposite I understand you as being a happy Berg enthusiast!
As am I, or I wouldn´t be here.

Peter

Racebikes
could you handle a race bike, some of the setups that top riders would use, you would most likely not like what a top pro like is so far apart from what a average rider would like, so is any manufacture building race bike I haven't seen one, do Husaberg make a competitive enduro bike I my
opinion yes, what is there is good foundation for a good race bike,
look what they have accomplish in their short exsistance and that is a with a limited budget and they are the red headed step child of KTM you don't do that with luck or magic, look what Tomas Gustavsson has created
it is innovative and a thinking out of the box
just my opinion
VIKING

tm-enduro
I am in the same boat middle fourthy the nice part of that is that one
gained some wisdom over the years and can look through the BS and
make much better decisions I cant say that I am an A rider but I have
been around some good riders
Husaberg has a good starting point it is the lightest big bore enduro bike
the center of gravity is low it has competitive power without being rude
the suspension can be made to thrill a faster rider if you want to loose
weight remove all E start paraphanelia and you can go all out and remove
counter balancer personally I think thats a waste of time since it seems to
reduce gyroscopic effect which is handy in a tight enduro it has an
bulletproof clutch and gearbox clutch pull is very light engine will last
for long time with clean air and oil and easy valve adjust it has excellent
brakes spareparts is for the most part only a phone call away
what other bike can be made better for less money :roll:
so long
Per

I bought my 97 FE501E, from the era of 'real' race Husabergs?, because I knew that this bike, or better, the motor, had layed ground for the KTM EXC 4strokes that came after the LC4. I had a chance to ride one before I moved to the states, and after that I knew I wanted a 4stroke. Another reason was that the bike is CA - street legal. Prior to the Berg, I had 2 KTM EXC300s, and I have raced only one event, the Erzberg race in Austria, a couple of times.

"No excuse bikes":
I don't have a problem to admit that I can't live up to what the bike is capable of, and that I might be served better with a DRZ400 or the like. But: I have both these bikes sitting in my garage, and I always grab the Berg. Because, even with my limited abilities, it is fun to ride, and I feel like being a better rider when I don't get stuck on certain trails or can keep up with the faster guys.

To me, it is somewhat like riding a horse that has won its share of competitions, but is now too old to compete: the stress is gone, but the fun is still there. And the day might still come that both of us feel really good and enter an Enduro or a Hare Scramble.

Franz

i believe that it's still possible to make a racing bike but the stakes have gone up haven't they! husaberg once made their bikes light. the only compromise to racing i could see was the air filter on the frameback as opposed to an airbox.

i feel that husaberg had an early advantage and found that the customer couldn't for one reason or another keep them reliable. there are hundreds of reasons for their unreliability and most can be traced back to the rider AS A MECHANIC making a mistake but mistakes they were!

you needed to be a good mechanic who knew his onions. when yamaha say replace the crank in a TZ at 500 miles: they don't mean 550! that's a mentality that is very hard for many people to take on. hard in roadracing! in MX and enduro? never! blasphemy!

the bike therefore becomes-like that TZ-high maintenance. you gotta be rich to buy one and richer still to buy and run one, that would have been the rule i guess 10 years ago.

husaberg are in a tight corner because they don't make enough profit to afford 'officially on their own' a completely new engine. if suzuki and kawazaki share a 250 and 400 engine you really ought to put your shirt on husaberg and katoom sharing the new DOHC 250. i can't see it any other way?

this will then be bored out to make 300cc or better - a 350, and there is your market entry models to complete the husaberg range.

going back to what defines a racer, well i think we get a bit lost when we say £10k etc. the point is: where and to what degree do you fudge to get the racer right?

besides the bore and stroke of the 450-what does it lack that the katoom has got besides a budget to race?

you'd have to say a narrow and light fuel tank
alloy subframe
forks that WP should have sorted some 5 years ago.

i wrote recently that the 450SX felt way lighter than mine. how and where did that come from.

in my opinion none of us have ever sat down and checked properly the c of g on the berg compared to a katoom 450SX. is this too technical? up my orofice? well you do want to discuss this!

IMHO the c of g on the katoom is lower when the berg is when set right. i get concerned that nobody else has a gap between the top of the rear tyre and the seat frame like the husey does.

i mean it is huge!!!!

i don't know why huseys have such a tall and wide tank. the cof g on that!!!

you might as well be carrying a rock on your back and one in your waist belt.

if you were the boys at the factory, or at R & D in sweden: would you back this old engine to the hilt and throw money and a high retail price at this bike given that the engine can no longer out perform the opposition without the next generation of engine being produced?

no.

so in answer to that question put to us at the beginning i would say, when you have the right engine-press home your advantage. get racing. when you have a good engine: re-target your product and sell to a slightly, and subtly different market.

for those who say that it is still competitive i say-where are the '06 MX machines? you can't just take a year off. if you take a year off and make no fundimental changes-you're as good as finished in this high performance field.

let's hope we get a new engine soon along with some go ahead stuff paid for by polaris and remember that when we do get it, sales of huseys won't have paid for that engine (if it's supplied only for husaberg machines which i don't think will ever happen again) that ktm did, and i think we may say that husaberg got a fair deal for once out of the partnership!

booooooooo! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: (i can hear it roared to the echo!)

if it was husaberg's engine that took on the japs and won (well ok it's 2-1 at half time in the game that never actually finishes) then i'm all the more happy for ktm.

some of us have had to race roadracers in the 80s when the only non-UJM at a meeting was mine! and out of a field of 250 bikes. that's a situation many of you can't imagine!

so come on, stop being sore at KTM and a few more. husaberg must pay it's way!

want those 2001 and 2002 machines back again with SEM and dell ortos?

neither do i!!!!



regards

Taffy

:headbang: :notworthy:

I think I understood most of that

You do have some very valid points but I would have to dissagree with the fuel tank.

I dont care how fat or high it is when I am 45 miles from the truck and it goes rrrraaaaahhhh rrrrrrraaaaahhhhh rrrruuuuuaaaahhh dead

Oh yeah you cant get 45 miles from anywhere in merry ole :twisted:

Just pullin on ya leg mate.

I agree with the C.G with Taffy, the Berg feels heavier just sitting on it, drop the tank and rad and the Berg will be fine....I can't wait for the next generation Berg's....... 8O

I do not see how it can be fair to compare an sx to your tanker. It is like comparing oranges and tangerines. The mx bikes are always lighter than their off-road counterparts. In order for your argument to have merit, you should compare your bike to an exc. Also, Husabergs should have a true 3 gallon volume, not smaller tanks.

ya know "race" what?

Enduros

Harescrambles

GNCC

MX

Flat track

The 06 Fe450e is listed as an "Enduro" bike on the Husaberg website. To my way of thinking my bike is "leading edge technolgy not bleeding edge" race ready for Enduros as advertised with a one year listed restricted warrenty.

Taffy
have you own a KTM I have in the woods it will work you to death
I had given up on Husaberg so few of my friends where out riding after
about 50 miles and I didn't have good time (couple of crashes and
tree hug) I hopped on to a fe 650 setup for a 240lbs it was stiff and I
was up to my old pace the KTM 450 felt 20lbs heavier a Husaberg is
easier to bob and weave through the the trees and rots and I was not the
only one one with the feeling that Husaberg felt more nimble than the KTM
after that ride my KTM was for sale is this an attempt to discredit KTM
not even do I think that KTM is arrogant yes
in 03 the R n D department of KTM Austria wanted to make better slimmer
tank for Husaberg but bean counters said no so does Husaberg play 2nd
fiddle certainly looks that way in 02 now late Rikard Saint was competing
in enduro with 250 Husaberg and it was not a debored 1st or 2nd generation engine Husaberg ideas has transcended into KTM so what
you see in SXF250 perhaps is to some degree a Husaberg blueprint
the grass is not greener on the other side Honda have their problems with
valves and running low on oil and the fork have not been hit for off road
Scott Summers have used every thing imaginable from XR600 to Ohlins
forks Yamaha had some problems as well Ty Davis had to use the 4 speed
trans while using the 5 sp trans had some DNF so is Husaberg a good
bike out of the box yes has it been made to appeal to broader audience
yes could it be made into a competitive bike yes
just my humble opinion
Per

I can certainly vouch for that a KTM in the woods (and especially in the ruts) is a very nervous beast, and it will work you, just like VIKING says.

So.

What´s the future like if we settle on Husaberg being an enduro bike only?
If that is the plan, then we need to see a complete program aimed at Enduro 1, 2 and 3.
Purpose built engines to fit each class, not bore/stroke that fits the budget. 100mm bore for all sizes has NOTHING to do with racing development. Why they changed to that can only be explained by accountants.
It gives me very bad vibes.

Tank sizes, suspension set-ups and such are so individual to the event and rider, I do not consider it to be where core race development can be seen. If I needed a smaller tank, I would just get one. If just a set of Öhlins would make the Husaberg cutting edge, then it would be easy. Aftermarket aluminum alloy frames have been available for years.

The engine is where it needs to happen if the aim is to attract other than aging enthusiasts. The truth is that with just re-jetting the new KTM 250 SX-F engine (DOHC), you get a dyno output that rivals that of today´s production Husaberg 450. And KTM is hard at work on the new DOHC 450.
Sadly, this is where the financial effort seems to be.

I´m happy to ride my friendly, docile 501. However, that´s not going to help the future of Husaberg much.

/Peter

PS
It is rather odd how we are talking about Husaberg. To many people who have never ridden one (including some salesmen...), Husaberg is a "true beast" and "not for the faint hearted". Amazing what a little marketing can do... I have a friend who chose a KTM 525, since he didn´t want a bike that was hard to handle... And that was at a KTM/Husaberg dealership. Bikes sitting side by side...
So, what´s it gonna be?
I vote for a friendly chassis and cutting-edge engine technology. But that´s just me...

It is rather odd how we are talking about Husaberg. Too many people who have never ridden one (including some salesmen...), Husaberg is a "true beast" and "not for the faint hearted". Amazing what a little marketing can do.

Click to expand...

Hi Peter,
You are quite the marksman.
I look forward to shaking your hand one day.
Respectfully,
Dale

Aspen said:

To many people who have never ridden one (including some salesmen...), Husaberg is a "true beast" and "not for the faint hearted".

Click to expand...

lol. my 550 is the easiest most mellow bike i've ever ridden. it's like my klx300 except with a decent chassis, good suspension, and enough power to get out of its own way.

VIKING said:

in 03 the R n D department of KTM Austria wanted to make better slimmer
tank for Husaberg but bean counters said no so does Husaberg play 2nd
fiddle certainly looks that way in 02 now late Rikard Saint was competing
in enduro with 250 Husaberg and it was not a debored 1st or 2nd generation engine Husaberg ideas has transcended into KTM so what
you see in SXF250 perhaps is to some degree a Husaberg blueprint
Per

Click to expand...

Has anyone seen or have pictures of this fabled Husaberg 250? The 250 has been mentioned before, but I have never heard any details about it (i.e. dohc, sohc, etc.). Did not BMG/Brett say a while back that Husaberg is supposed to have a 250 for 2006 or 2007? It seems to me that the 250 is the Husaberg world's version of its own urban legend.

Brendan said:

Has anyone seen or have pictures of this fabled Husaberg 250? The 250 has been mentioned before, but I have never heard any details about it (i.e. dohc, sohc, etc.). Did not BMG/Brett say a while back that Husaberg is supposed to have a 250 for 2006 or 2007? It seems to me that the 250 is the Husaberg world's version of its own urban legend.

Click to expand...

just get a grownup bike and only turn the throttle halfway. presto. 250. of course the husabarg/velosapiens 250 is 3 lbs heavier than a wr250f or crf250x, but i can make it back into a 550 whenever i want just by turning my right hand a bit more.

Not quite so simple.
You´re forgetting the 11lb (5kg) crank spinning in your 550.
The difference in gyroscopic force compared to a 250 is not to be forgotten.
Not to be a wise-***, just want to stay objective.
There is no gain without a loss...