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Photos of a new/old project.

nsman,
I like to simplify it like this...the harder the ice, the more we get to back it in. Where as the softer the ice the more we take moto lines. All that math makes my brain hurt, plus i have a hard time doing the calculation at speed :lol:
nizzo
 
Nizzo, NSMAN et al,

Alkaline sloughs at -8C! that's cheating you buggers :D Actually I am just jealous...

Actually all your comments solve a long standing riddle for us northern numpties - we have colder temps, very clean fresh water and it all makes for ice conditions that are too hard.

Nizzo - you mention that at -2C the ice goes away on you again, I suspect you are experiencing the effect of ice skates where the contact pressure of the screws on the ice results in the ice melting. Its a pressure induced phase change from ice to water - this is how ice skates glide so well

Could someone beat me in the head with an explanation about 'you ride the backside of the screws' Rudi Jr at Scona enlightened me a long time ago about how critical the direction of the head was depending on where it was on the tire, I was just starting to experiment with driving the screws in at odd angles when my family came along and diverted me... :)

Cheers

Mark
 
Enginehardware

My apologies for jacking this thread - I have been away from playing on the ice for a long time and your post got me going...

You have built a stunning machine there - look forward to hearing back from you on how it works. I can't get over all the CF work...

Mark
 
Kelsow,

The photos you threw up are slick. Here's hoping for warm weather this spring and maybe with my skill level I can get 1/2 that far over .. :D

Cheers

Mark
 
Question:

Would MT60 type SM tires on SM rims be the ideal ice racing tire?

I am sure it's been done but I haven't heard how it worked...

Cheers

Mark
 
More pics

Just to add a few close-ups on the issue.

Do you not use these studs in America?

//Thomas
 

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Engine mod

Just a few pics on the engine at the moment.
Changing some parts on the cyl head.
 

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  • Outlet 670cc ice.jpg
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  • Titanium valves ice.jpg
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Piston.

A Light Elco piston that we mill off some 1/2mm for clearence, and new pockets for the valves.
Due to the stroke it comes 1.5mm higher.
 

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RE: Piston.

Do you not use these studs in America?

//Thomas
Click to expand...

Enginehardware, I can't say if the Americans use them or not. But out here in Alberta they are very popular for woods riding. Typically folks buy the Trelleborg Spike tire version. We don't usually see them on the ice because they are not grippy enough for ice racing. I gather spike tires are quite popular in Sweden??
nizzo
 
RE: Piston.

Question:

Would MT60 type SM tires on SM rims be the ideal ice racing tire?

I am sure it's been done but I haven't heard how it worked...

Cheers

Mark
Click to expand...

You may be onto something there Mark! Ive only ever seen the typical 18"/21" or 19"/21" combo. I wonder what was used back in the day when street bikes were allowed in endurance ice.

Fry, do you know?
 
Re: RE: Piston.

nizzo said:
Do you not use these studs in America?

//Thomas
Click to expand...

Enginehardware, I can't say if the Americans use them or not. But out here in Alberta they are very popular for woods riding. Typically folks buy the Trelleborg Spike tire version. We don't usually see them on the ice because they are not grippy enough for ice racing. I gather spike tires are quite popular in Sweden??
nizzo
Click to expand...

This winter, is not a good winter for us in the south of sweden, the tire to the right in above pics is for wood/Enduro riding. The one with the thin spikes are just for ice, they will brake at once if you use them on hard surface. We even protect them when transporting the bike.
My ones are not so sharp any more due to the concrete floor in my workshop.

Check www.ddp.nu they are a trader of these tires.

//Thomas
 
kelsow said:
...removed lots of text...

He certainly does. I believe he is some sort of supermoto champion in Finland or Sweden or something.
Click to expand...
His name is Olle Eriksson and he lives in Skellefteå in the north of Sweden. He is an excellent Sumo rider but no way near champion. He still woops my *** but that doesn't mean too much. His riding style is... ehhhmm.... 'wide' :lol: Really great to look at. When I first got to know him him was actually riding a 650 'Berg :D
 
Re: RE: Piston.

nizzo said:
Question:

Would MT60 type SM tires on SM rims be the ideal ice racing tire?

I am sure it's been done but I haven't heard how it worked...

Cheers

Mark
Click to expand...

You may be onto something there Mark! Ive only ever seen the typical 18"/21" or 19"/21" combo. I wonder what was used back in the day when street bikes were allowed in endurance ice.

Fry, do you know?
Click to expand...

Hi Nizzo,

I found this pic on my pc - can't remember where I found it but it was a keeper...

Impressive, I think...

Cheers

Mark
 

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Re: RE: Piston.

chilledspode said:
nizzo said:
Question:

Would MT60 type SM tires on SM rims be the ideal ice racing tire?

I am sure it's been done but I haven't heard how it worked...

Cheers

Mark
Click to expand...

You may be onto something there Mark! Ive only ever seen the typical 18"/21" or 19"/21" combo. I wonder what was used back in the day when street bikes were allowed in endurance ice.

Fry, do you know?
Click to expand...

Hi Nizzo,

I found this pic on my pc - can't remember where I found it but it was a keeper...

Impressive, I think...

Cheers

Mark
Click to expand...

I would like to try this concept, like the "oval iceracing" studs, a test next winter with a set of carbon wheels will be fine!!!
//Thomas
 
Thomas,

I would like to hear how that project goes :)

Again, you have done an amazing amount of work on that bike - keep us posted.

Mark
 
Thomas, What size titanium valves are you using? Are they from the 450. Are you running them on the standard seats? would they not last longer on beryllium seats? I like your idea of getting the piston closer to the head , they say squish has to be as close as possible to be effective, no more than .040" thou . Have you measured yours? I like the black bike, carbon fiber looks great! mine is carbon too. Cheers spanner
 
the trouble is spanner you don't want any less or any more than .040"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

on little engines it comes down but on these beasties with roller b/e and mains you need .040".

regards

Taffy
 
spanner said:
Thomas, What size titanium valves are you using? Are they from the 450. Are you running them on the standard seats? would they not last longer on beryllium seats? I like your idea of getting the piston closer to the head , they say squish has to be as close as possible to be effective, no more than .040" thou . Have you measured yours? I like the black bike, carbon fiber looks great! mine is carbon too. Cheers spanner
Click to expand...

Hi.
38mm inlet, on Berylium seat, we buy blanks and machine them.
Squish height, we use between 0,8mm-0,5mm. This bike is 0,8mm
Regards
Thomas
 
thomas

you have bult 650cc engines with just 0.5mm (.020") squish? i was thinking of .8mm minimum and maybe 0.9mm as a possibility?

regards

Taffy
 
Taffy said:
thomas

you have bult 650cc engines with just 0.5mm (.020") squish? i was thinking of .8mm minimum and maybe 0.9mm as a possibility?

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...

We had the top of piston just flush with the liner when we started with std 82mm stroke and now when we mill of the top of piston due to the increase of stroke(85mm) we adjust the squish height.
0.5mm is to little we have seen but 0.8mm works for us.
On the Honda CRF 530cc that we made, we had squish height 0.95mm.
We use soft lead placed on top of piston and after a full cycle on the crank we messure with a digital caliper, not a 100% sience but good enough for us.
We adjust the chamber on the cyl head a bit, and due to long opening time on the valve we loose some compression.
//Thomas
 

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