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New headgasket, leaking all over, is it screwed?

U

UberDub

Joined Jun 2010
11 Posts | 0+
Whats up Guys?
I have a 2000 fe400e. I was getting coolant in the oil, and weeping from the block slightly when it was run, causing a emulsion to form and seep out. The previous owner rebuilt the head recently before I bought it, it had 4 hours on the head. Everything was fine til I let it run for a bit, thats when I noticed the leak. I spoke to the local dealer, they said you ave to retorque the head after a few hours of running it, after a rebuild. I figure thats sucks, better order a head gasket. Well, Ive installed the new headgasket, gave it 48 hrs + for all the sealant to cure before I filled it up with any fluids. As soon as I put coolant in, it ran right out the deck. Im pretty sure the torque wrench I was using, was ok. Is there something im missing here? Something specific to these engines? I followed the factory manual. Is the headgasket screwed now, because coolant was gotten past it? Thanks a lot for any input, im getting pretty frustrated at this point. Need to sell the bike, because work has been slow, but want to make sure I can sell it in good faith, and in tip top shape. Sucks, dont want to sell it, but Ive got plenty of toys, and would rather pay my mortgage.

Thinks in advance.

Oh yeah, the deck, and the head seemed pretty straight, and true.
 
When the dealer said retorque the head, that's what he meant. Not replace the head gasket. When you take it apart again check the head and deck for straigntness with a straight edge and feeler guages. You will probably be alright. Do not use sealer on the head gasket, they go on dry.
I think some of the older models had a small o-ring seal as well, but that may have been on the rocker cover. Get a parts diagram and have a look.
 
If the coolant is running out of the deck then something is warped, badly. You need a clean up cut on the cylinder and head.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. When I talked to the dealer they recommended a new gasket since it had leaked already. The gasket was put on dry. the sealent was used on the covers. I guess it could be warped, but if it was warped that badly, Id think I wouldve been able to eyeball it, no? Big question is, do I need another gasket because this one has leaked by, or can I reuse it? If the gasket is still good, should I try to just torque it down more? Maybe wrench was off? It wasnt leaking like this before. The old gasket only leaked when it was running, and just a little bit. This pours right out, as soon as I pour it in. Before it was more coolant in the oil, than leaking out. I havent put the oil in yet.
 
Take a good look at the gasket. Chances are you can reuse it. Take a good look at everything when you get it apart. It's hard to believe anything is warped that bad. Check and make sure the cylinder sleeve is flush with the deck as well.
 
Thanks for the input berger. I will double check those things. Im actually in Tempe. If I need to shave the head, got any local recommendations? Im half tempted to just take this thing into premier KTM, but theyre pretty far away, and currently dont have a trailer. What should I be looking for on the gasket, to know if its good? Wear, residue, thin/thick spots? I may end up yankin the head off this evening. Maybe the wrench was off, I borrowed my buddies, seems unlikely, but I have no idea when the last time he calibrated it was.
 
UberDub said:
Thanks for the input berger. I will double check those things. Im actually in Tempe. If I need to shave the head, got any local recommendations? Im half tempted to just take this thing into premier KTM, but theyre pretty far away, and currently dont have a trailer. What should I be looking for on the gasket, to know if its good? Wear, residue, thin/thick spots? I may end up yankin the head off this evening. Maybe the wrench was off, I borrowed my buddies, seems unlikely, but I have no idea when the last time he calibrated it was.
Click to expand...
Premier is no more as of last month. Pull it apart, I'm sure you will find an obvious problem.
 
My money would be on the cylinder/case height. Make sure they're level.
HG should be OK but just check for any obvious damage.
 
I got it apart. My buddy torqued it down. I dont think he set the wrench right or somethin. They were barely snug when I took them off. Manual says 40nm IIRC. Gasket looks good. Im gonna put the head on a piece of marble tile I have. Pretty sure thats pretty flat. Question now I have is, should I get new gaskets for the water pump, timing chain tensioner, and transmission cover? Or would sealant suffice? These dont like being taken off, and put back on so many times. Mine are worn, even the new one now.
 
I just put it on the marble....it doesnt look 100% true. There is a very slight gap if you look level, and close. Barely visible. about 1/2 mm maybe smaller. I dont think it was on the side that seemed to be leaking. Am I being too pedantic? I mean its pretty close. Barely noticeable, I had to really look. How much is too much?
 
get the head plained and use the old gasket and then torque the head down to 46 pounds. go in the house,. watch the world cup. sup a beer. go to bed.
 
UberDub said:
I just put it on the marble....it doesnt look 100% true. There is a very slight gap if you look level, and close. Barely visible. about 1/2 mm maybe smaller. I dont think it was on the side that seemed to be leaking. Am I being too pedantic? I mean its pretty close. Barely noticeable, I had to really look. How much is too much?
Click to expand...

0.05mm if your fussy with the fibre gaskets but the oem berg ones should handle 0.12

0.03mm or less with solid gaskets

check the block and the liner protrusion as well it all adds up
 
bushmechanic said:
UberDub said:
I just put it on the marble....it doesnt look 100% true. There is a very slight gap if you look level, and close. Barely visible. about 1/2 mm maybe smaller. I dont think it was on the side that seemed to be leaking. Am I being too pedantic? I mean its pretty close. Barely noticeable, I had to really look. How much is too much?
Click to expand...

0.05mm if your fussy with the fibre gaskets but the oem berg ones should handle 0.12

0.03mm or less with solid gaskets

check the block and the liner protrusion as well it all adds up
Click to expand...

Id say Im definitely beyond maximum deviation. id say its about .25-.5 mm. The sleeve looked good, The cylinder/block itself looks ok. I would think the cylinder/block, would take a lot to warp, given its what seems like a cast iron sleeve. The head is aluminum, and I can see it warping pretty easily from heat, given the metling point of Al, versus Fe. Whats the best way to check the deck for trueness, without buying more tools? Cant put the tile on it, headstuds in the way. Would rather not remove the cylinder. Then Id have to remove the studs, and get the tool to remove the piston ring. I was thinking about putting a level on it, see if there is any play. I think it would be hard to do with out removing it, or at least the headstuds tho. Shaving the head, while a pisser, isnt a big deal. I hope to hell the block/deck dont have to be resurfaced too. Again, tho, Id think the Al head would warp way before the block with an iron sleeve would. Am I totally wrong?
 
Taffy said:
get the head plained and use the old gasket and then torque the head down to 46 pounds. go in the house,. watch the world cup. sup a beer. go to bed.
Click to expand...
 
Taffy said:
Taffy said:
get the head plained and use the old gasket and then torque the head down to 46 pounds. go in the house,. watch the world cup. sup a beer. go to bed.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Right on Taffy. My GF is a big fan, itll be on. Im definitely getting the head resurfaced, but what about the block?
 
the block ? check it if your worried you can do it in the bike

but doesn't matter if your not going to remove it.
 
It'll be OK - the job would have to be real bad to need the barrel doing.

but it's very easy to remove and have checked by the engineers.

regards

Taffy
 
Thanks again for the imput guys. The barrel, and head are at the shop. Should be done with it early next week. Then I can button everything back up.
 
Hey guys,
Just got the head, and barrel back from the machine shop. Looks good! Im gonna button things up this evening. Just a couple of questions before I do. Taffy: you said torque it down to 46 pounds, is that 46 ft-lbs(SAE). The workshop manual says 44Nm. One thing Im concerned about is the outer three screws on the head. My torque wrench is a 1/2" drive. It wont fit under the the head to torque down the screws. I imagine a 1/4" drive would be needed. Manual calls for 10Nm, is this something that is ok to guess? Figured Id ask someone who has more experience with these engines. I also dont have a piston ring compressor, think Im gonna need it? Its just one ring, dont have to worry about spacing...is this something you guys end up using?





'
 
yes 46 foot pounds

practice a torque setting on something else - then try a spanner to the same strength - then try the two nuts.

two men could get away without a ring compressor if they know what they WANT to do but one on your own? no chance.

regards

Taffy
 

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