new 06 fs650e - jetting question

Dunno,But I'm Right In Saying That There's Little Between The 400 To 650 Regarding Jetting.
I'm In The Middle Of Changing The Jetting And Redoing Breathers And Fuel Lines On My 450.
I Shall Start Off Using Dales Needle With 150MJ/35PJ With 1/4PAS And No Pump Squirt.
Think That EKR Is A Leaner Needle Than EKQ,So I'd Try Taffy's Jetting With The R.
But I'm Sure Someone Who Knows Better Will Be Along Soon To Rubbish What I've Said

ha ha ha! give me as chance to get here kez!!!!!

the EKR is richer at idle than the DVT so you should have few problems moving off from closed throttle. but it is marginal. in the 'E' series i ran the EKQ which is one step richer at idle still T to S to R followed by to Q = 3. the D series is stronger off a closed throttle and boththe D and the E are roughly equal at mid throttle. the E series romps it in 5th and 6th.

i think your 160MJ is fine but the 45PJ is way over the top. 45 is good with a DVT needle but nnecassary with a Q. go back to 35/38/40 for that.

regards

Taffy

you're now asking me to say will it be ok for a 650 to my 400, different ignition and cam even.

but i found it wasn't right, no. get the EKQ from your yamaha dealer. i have given the yamaha part number several times. the DVT on clip 6 or 7 has a chance. that's where i ran mine.

170 MJ = clip 4 or so
160 MJ = clip 6 or so

costs nothing to try. all i think will happen is that you might get a flat spot as you touch the throttle but remember you must use the needle to get the best midthrottle hit you can. that is what you set the needle for. first and last. don't lift it to get rid of the bog!

if when the needle is right for that 4th gear rolling on hit then review the off idle snap.

and don't be like some ***** did and revit on the paddock stand. you have to test it out in the open.

regards

Taffy

I also used to have a similar engine stumble at 5-10% throttle with the stock 48PJ 180MJ jetting. My spark plug was dark so that was a clue my jetting was rich. I experimented with a bunch of different jet numbers and worked my way down to the point where I'm now using a 38PJ and 158MJ with a FactoryPro Emulsion Tube and #1090 needle (not sure what the OBxxx conversion is). The bike now runs perfect.

chilledspode said:

Taffy said:

you're now asking me to say will it be ok for a 650 to my 400, different ignition and cam even.

but i found it wasn't right, no. get the EKQ from your yamaha dealer. i have given the yamaha part number several times. the DVT on clip 6 or 7 has a chance. that's where i ran mine.

170 MJ = clip 4 or so
160 MJ = clip 6 or so

costs nothing to try. all i think will happen is that you might get a flat spot as you touch the throttle but remember you must use the needle to get the best midthrottle hit you can. that is what you set the needle for. first and last. don't lift it to get rid of the bog!

if when the needle is right for that 4th gear rolling on hit then review the off idle snap.

and don't be like some ***** did and revit on the paddock stand. you have to test it out in the open.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

"...like some *****..."

Ouch - you and I don't even know eachother

Just to be clear on terminology, bog = rich and stumble = lean. I have had long painful discussions on jetting where people talk about rich stumbles and that phrase just confuses me

From what I am reading in your post it appears we use the same descriptions for lean and rich conditions so we should be able to get along on jetting discussions. <grin>

Cheers

Mark

Click to expand...

Now I'm confused too, because when a bike is lean, it for sure bogs, and when a bike is jetted rich, it stumbles.

mark

well at least it's now accepted that you get a rich bog. to a newbie puouring into the superbowl the incessant cry of "hi, i'm new around here, i have a lean spot off idle..." three a day on TT. it so hard to get the word out and change it.

i was the man that pushed and pushed the rich bog and i'm probably still the only person that pushes this one: "if the bike has a rich bog, you can cure it by jetting upo OR by jetting down...." that is the truth of it. of course the real answer is that it's too rich and must be leaned off. but when someone from connetifrisco says " i just replaced my 170 with a 180 and it was cured" you just sob. you just can't stop everyone from themselves.

the difference between a rich bog and lean is that when you open the throttle with lean you get a note change and no extra revs. it sounds thirsty!

The EMn was the needle of choice for JD on his WR400. in the Uk i ran with the EMM (richer idle) but i ran a 35PJ just off idle and JD ran a 40 or 42PJ. he was wrong but i would say that wouldn't i! LOL!!

i haven't tried the EMN because it's the wrong needle. i think mark you have to understand that the straight being an N means that the bike would stall through being too rich. a good example is tonkin it doiwn the highway and stopping at a junction. bike stalls. you can imagine a few others i'm sure but you've got the gist of it!

regards

taffy

mark

i seem to be getting my arse kisked in a room of one legged men. can't see who or how it might be but i seem to be offering jetting and getting nowhere. waste of time really...

i would only listen to the top handful of jetting people - even if they don't say exactly the same thing. i wouldn't go with 'fred' or 'bert'. 2 x no knowledge is equal to no knowledge still.

you've been offered good jetting in the doc, there is nothing i would change from there. i have tried to perfect the d series and the E series over many, many tests and when i finally had them right i then tried lineaweavers needle and it made a small but discernable difference.

the point is, if you read the write-ups you would say that the only way to truly save a lot of money was to go straight for the lineaweaver needle and correct jets. we've done the tests so you can buy the product.

but i can't see the point in trying all these things just to say that you'll probably go for his needle? why?

i ran an EMM and JD ran a EMN in his WR. that's one needle straight thicker and therefore leaner.

if i ran an EKQ and you go one leaner you get a EKR and guess who has got one of those!

i think you only need to go look at supertireguys message above to see that you can get the jetting down.

try a 165MJ and buy a 160 as well.
keep the EKR and start on clip 4 then try clip 3
try a 35PJ and buy a 38 as well.
block the apj squirt off
get a #80 and a #75 starter jet

that should do you.

a few tests in the spring, modify the choke jet after a few cold mornings and see how you get on.

regards

Taffy

what i haven't mentioned is that on my carb - the mark 1 - you can replace the pilot air jet with another or you can buy a tapered screw to replace it callled the pilot air screw. 1/4 turn out from closed is the equivelant of a 45 PJ and so forth. it's a proper factory peice of kit. or you can continue to buy the jets.

by the time you get to 2 jets you could have had a screw (but enough of my *** life!) so i as a 'fiddler' got the PS.

so you'll see it written by some as :

60 PA or 60PAS or 60 PAJ it all means the same thing.

if husaberg were worried about emmisions they wouldn't be putting 170MJs in! so as to why they're rich i don't really know.

regards

Taffy

Hey Taffy,
How does 38,40 pilot, 80paj,JD BLUE,5thclip,185main(JDneedle thicker at tip)ap squirt .5 secound coaster enrichener valve disconnected.Bike is a 06 fe 650 e plug colour biscuit brown runs excellent!

chilledspode said:

Taffy said:

what i haven't mentioned is that on my carb - the mark 1 - you can replace the pilot air jet with another or you can buy a tapered screw to replace it callled the pilot air screw. 1/4 turn out from closed is the equivelant of a 45 PJ and so forth. it's a proper factory peice of kit. or you can continue to buy the jets.

by the time you get to 2 jets you could have had a screw (but enough of my *** life!) so i as a 'fiddler' got the PS.

so you'll see it written by some as :

60 PA or 60PAS or 60 PAJ it all means the same thing.

if husaberg were worried about emmisions they wouldn't be putting 170MJs in! so as to why they're rich i don't really know.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Yes, you keep news of your *** life private and I promise to do the same...

Adjustable pilot jet - good god, I am in heaven..... I haven't seen these in the force parts catalog - where might I find one of these gems?

In my previous post on emissions - I was implying the legal requirement meant they shipped jetted very lean, not rich as you suggested. Your suggested jetting is even leaner on the pilot than stock.

Cheers and thanks for the help.

Mark

Click to expand...

Mark,
I think what Taffy is referring to is an adjustable fuel screw. It replaces the stock screw on the bottom of the carb with an accesible external dial which makes it much easier to do on the bike adjustments. I have one fitted to my Husaberg, and it is very convenient.

no i really did say pilot air screw and meant it. you have two jets on the front face of the carb and they go under the belmouth. one is called the main air jet and the other is the pilot air jet. it alters the amount of air that goes with the PJ.

it's best to alter them together.

i was the first to correlate the relationship twixt the two. this is a long while ago now but it's roughly 15 air to a PJ. PJs start at 35 so:

35PJ = 45 PAJ
38PJ = 60PAJ
40PJ = 75PAJ
42PJ = 90PAJ
45PJ = 100-110PAJ
48PJ = 100-125PAJ

if you go with the PAS then you have the following turns out to get the same PAJ.

so: screw to jet ratio (from the factory so no argueing this time!

1/4 turn out = 45PAJ
3/8 turn =60PAJ

and so forth.

do a search on TT for a PAS and somewhere you'll get the sudco part number. however they got so inundated with requests for them that eventually even the thickest ***** on the counter didn't need a part No.

allens performance do them in the UK as well.

discostu

your jetting sounds awful to me, sorry mate but that's straight for you. lineaweaver had JD send him a needle and dale dyno'd it against his and thedifference was massive, i mean huge. something like 5 BHP.

even with the thick tip i would still say that 165MJ was the maximum you needed. but the point is that to go down that much - you have a bike that will run poorly on the needle unless you raise it by 1 or even 1.5 clips.

i can't give you proper jetting help while you run the JD needles. JD made sure that it was a riddle within a mystery just to understand what he has done.

i have all 5 needles and let's just say i've checked them microscopiciously!

regards

Taffy