need to lower bike

FE350

last week you said that the X-bushing was rubbish - what cock!!!!

now your telling people not to move their forks because the bike will 'flop'? you're also giving people suspension info that you said people couldn't possibly know about!

well Mr. Expert, don't stop there, so now tell him how to get over it! you're the expert!
:finger::finger:

or have we reached the limit of your knowledge (vast it isn't)

Taffy

At least on the DRZ - and on linkage bikes in generai I believe - a lowering link will indeed change effectve spring rate and damping behavior, because it changes the leverage.

Longer link -> more leverage -> wheel travel has an easier time working on the shock.

Promise

Lowering links are not recommended. It's relatively easy to add internal spacers to reduce travel! My opinion is that everybody should get their suspension valved and sprung for their weight and purpose - and that's a good time to have spacers installed, if the other external lowering methods aren't enough.

FE350 said:

If you lower and set your sag correctly and still bottom then you have issues big time, no amount of doing anything will correct this other than reworking you suspension correctly.

Click to expand...

True, but why start with less travel to work with. It leaves fewer inches to use and makes you either use stffer springs or your damping curve needs to be steeper

Taffy said:

FE350

last week you said that the X-bushing was rubbish - what cock!!!!

now your telling people not to move their forks because the bike will 'flop'? you're also giving people suspension info that you said people couldn't possibly know about!

well Mr. Expert, don't stop there, so now tell him how to get over it! you're the expert!
:finger::finger:

or have we reached the limit of your knowledge (vast it isn't)

Taffy

Click to expand...

Well FELLA BONEHEAD, I highly don't think I would ever tell anyone the X bushing is rubbish as I swear by the one in my 2014 FE350 the exact bike this thread is about. As for the 4CS, It does not like to be raised, ask anyone who owns one. I liked to raise my old WP in my KTM as it worked well for me, but the 4CS does not. Maybe go back to the post and actually read it, if you can read? *******

Ya really want to start this again????????? I thought we were over this ********, but I guess not.

tourist said:

At least on the DRZ - and on linkage bikes in generai I believe - a lowering link will indeed change effectve spring rate and damping behavior, because it changes the leverage.

Longer link -> more leverage -> wheel travel has an easier time working on the shock.

Promise

Lowering links are not recommended. It's relatively easy to add internal spacers to reduce travel! My opinion is that everybody should get their suspension valved and sprung for their weight and purpose - and that's a good time to have spacers installed, if the other external lowering methods aren't enough.

Click to expand...

I agree, but if everything is adjusted in relation to the link it can work out ok. too fast then slow it down, to soft, tighten up. However I do not like lowering links and they are a last resort for me.
I also am very sketchy about letting any JOE touch my suspension, space and re-valve. I have seen tons of shops do this and then it becomes even worse than using a link. As I am sure most of us are aware, it takes a special person to be able to do this correctly and keep the bike balanced correctly. Allot of shops can do this as well as backyarders like Taffy, but is it really done correctly? Is the balance correct? I really like the offset bushing idea as it does not muck with the shock.

And Taffy,

Once again, I am giving advise on what works for me and giving advise to try and help. A big question here??? Do you own a 2014 FE350???? Have you lowered one???? Have you even rode one??????



I am giving a personal opinion NOT TRYING TO SELL FELLOW USERS MAGIG BEANS. Keep to selling your jets lmfao and what ever else you can and keep your BS away from me.

Oh and a Happy New Year to ya Fella.

I'm selling nothing here. just helping people with far better advice than you can give phuqface!

what goes on inside a fork is suspension, what you do with the fork in the yoke is handling. get your phuqin facts right?

what do you mean everyone knows you can't move a 4cs fork leg? anyone reading that has to know you talk like a complete cock.

suggest that anyone reading this follows FE's other posts - he has more wisdom like this all over the show.

last week he didn't know what anti squat was but was putting people off the X bushing.

keep it up...with phuqwits like you on here we really are going to hell in a handcart.

Taffy

Shut the **** up Taffy

LOL here we go again WTF,
It was so nice and quiet for a while without any BS.
I just don't get it?
Why is he always on me?
Am I a threat to your online magic bean business?
Do you just not like other peoples advise or comments?
Is it that your old and washed up?
Is your business that slow that you want to blame someone other than yourself?
Is it that your just an idiot with nothing more to do?

I still didn't get an answer on the facts. Do you own a FE350, Have you lower one? Have you rode one? I get nothing but gibberish????



And as for the 4CS LOL, of course you can move it, but one who has done this will find it does not work well and I think anyone who read the full post will understand what I was talking about, It only seems to be you Taffy that doesn't get it.

Taffy said:

I'm selling nothing here. just helping people with far better advice than you can give phuqface!

what goes on inside a fork is suspension, what you do with the fork in the yoke is handling. get your phuqin facts right?
what do you mean everyone knows you can't move a 4cs fork leg? anyone reading that has to know you talk like a complete cock.

suggest that anyone reading this follows FE's other posts - he has more wisdom like this all over the show.

last week he didn't know what anti squat was but was putting people off the X bushing.

keep it up...with phuqwits like you on here we really are going to hell in a handcart.

Taffy

Click to expand...

OK Taffy its on lmao.

Now to correct your quote *******.

What goes on inside a fork is part of the suspension system. To what holds the object that is being suspended is the suspension. So the whole fork is the suspension of the object it holds. Not just the internals. These would be parts that make up the system.

So what you were saying is that a rear shock internals are suspension but the spring outside is not a part??? What planet are you on??

Anything that holds an object up or gives travel to an object in either direction up down is suspension. the triple trees are part of the suspension system, the swing arm is part of the suspension, the links are part of the suspension.

For a motorcycle without shocks, such as a hard tail Harley, The rear tire becomes the suspension as it does not have a dampening system. The shock (whole shock) is part of a suspension system not just the internals.

Now Taffy, I am a instructor of automotive, this is quite closely related to motorcycle without a doubt. So be very careful what you post and how you word. I have time, money and experience. Do you want to go there with me again.

I would rather not and spend my time helping others, but if you start this again I will be more than pleased to pick you apart every chance I get and will take the time to follow each post you enter, so you make the choice FELLA as it is only you who can piss the %^&* off.

And a big Sorry to Webfoot for this BS, this goes back a ways when I joined this forum to help and another user did not like it. I deeply apologize to you as I thought this BS was over with and that we were adults?????????

I had no choice but to defend as it is who I am.

I think what is meant is that bike with the clamps that are on it may not respond to the forks being slid up. The forks have no idea were they are located in the clamps. Bad handling would likely be linked more to the change in angles than on the for itself.

soud like the argument about the throttle being less touchy if you turn the throttle housing on the bars.

Dirtrulz said:

I think what is meant is that bike with the clamps that are on it may not respond to the forks being slid up. The forks have no idea were they are located in the clamps. Bad handling would likely be linked more to the change in angles than on the for itself.

soud like the argument about the throttle being less touchy if you turn the throttle housing on the bars.

Click to expand...

moving the forks up and down in the triple clamps changes rake and trail of the motorcycle. if you want to turn faster than raise them up and if slower put them down. Flop will occur when they are raised to much.

So flying along at a high speed your bars will rip out of your hands and down you go is what is meaning here. Nothing to do with throttle what so ever. It is all about the geometrics of the motorcycle my friend

webfoot said:

I've ordered a x bushing and cut my seat down, i raised my bars when i installed my scott damper.. how much did or can you raise the forks in the triple clamps?

webfoot
ontario canada

Click to expand...

you measure how much the bike sunk at the rear and then that is what you raise the forks by at the front.

measure up to say the tip of the exhaust for example and then fit the X-bushing. measure again, it will be say 20mm lower. that is what the forks go up and through by. that is why I said you'll need bar risers.

by the way, if you're being anal, measuring to the seat before you move the forks and then after you move them will have moved the seat again because the fluids inside tipped.... it does your head in!

regards

Taffy

FE350 said:

moving the forks up and down in the triple clamps changes rake and trail of the motorcycle. if you want to turn faster than raise them up and if slower put them down. Flop will occur when they are raised to much.

So flying along at a high speed your bars will rip out of your hands and down you go is what is meaning here. Nothing to do with throttle what so ever. It is all about the geometrics of the motorcycle my friend

Click to expand...

I trust by 'Flop' you mean a steering that wants to fall to the lock?

moving the forks up and down in the triple clamps changes rake and trail of the motorcycle.
CORRECT

"if you want to turn faster than raise them up and if slower put them down."
WRONG
completely the opposite of what happens.
If you want to turn faster you lower the forks in the TCs. it will turn the bike faster BUT IT WILL BE HEAVIER TO STEER AND TURN.

reverse the above for the opposite.

think F1 car, very little steering movement but heavy. so is an F1 quick to steer or slow?

"Flop will occur when they are raised to much."
WRONG
if you raise the forks you reduce the trail, you reduce the flop.

if you keep reducing the trail the bike gets EASIER to steer but it won't lay over. IT DOESN'T STEER FASTER.

not having ridden the FE350e doesn't matter, the only way you make a bike flop more is with more trail. in this case more trail is done by lowering the forks through the TCs. THIS INCREASES THE RAKE as well as the trail. this is true of all bikes.

THE LIGHTER THE BIKE THE MORE TRAIL A RIDER CAN COPE WITH. THAT IS WHY THE 2001 KTM125SX RAN 14MM OFFSET. because the bike weighed nothing. trail is govorned as much by the rider's percieved strength as by any rules about trail.

this is also trusting that you use the American systen of Rake and not the English? the last time I checked you were a "septic tank"!

flop is the result of too much trail. an excellent example is going up a mound and trying to turn the steering as you approach the top. none of us do it - we wait till we're on the top - then turn because any sooner and the bike would drop to the lock and we can hardly fight it.

this is when you have too much rake and too much trail but the trail is what is doing it.

it is like holding a field hockey stick on its tip with the curve uppermost. it wants to drop left or right.

so when you LOWER A FORK LEG YOU INCREASE THE trail because you have raised the front of the bike up and also increased the rake.

FE350
you're wrong again.
from the above, anyone can yet again tell that when you first sledged me for giving advice on a bike that I had ridden the sister too - and you hadn't - even ridden any of the similar models -that your first sledging was probably (without trawling the archives to prove it for themselves) WRONG.

but after that you kept it up on almost any other subject, you got involved in totally off subject threads without even having something valid to say.

you are therefore a complete Cock.

I know what kind of man you are. I grew up with some but luckily not many of your type to my left, right and over the road from my house when I was a kid. I know you but do you know me? No, you don't do you.

you're a big mouth of the worst kind because you keep attacking even when you're wrong.

now if you want I'll copy everyone here in on that original thread and I'll pull you apart again my ol China! up to you...

OK?

have you got that this time?

and no I'm NOT phuckin'LOL'ing or 'LMAO"ing here.

Taffy

Taffy, it's obvious that you're talking about the opposite thing. Raise/lower forks/yoke. It's a confusing thing to talk about.

Second, stop with the personal attacks. Or do you want me to start compiling a list of people who are dissatisfied with your service? Shut the f..k up! You know as well as I do that many of us have had private messages on-forum and off-forum that you sell people parts that do not fit configurations which you have expressly stated that do fit! ****** people right over! Do you want me to compile a list? Do you? Because I will put in the time if you don't shut the **** up!!

Now I don't mind you chiming in with your opinion on things, but stop with the ******* absolutes and personal attacks!

Taffy:

the term is opposite to how you say it *******. Raising the fork up means you lower it in the clamp stupid. So we are talking about the same thing but you don't comprehend the terminology just as you don't with electrical "dead" as the property term is short to ground or open. Get some schooling *******.

Now for the 4CS, It is not the same idiot. It has one side compression and one side rebound, thus making it work different, it will do different things than a conventional shock that does both rebound and compression. So flop is a normal term when steering flops *******.

I guess the builders who do big rakes on the choppers have no idea when using terms such as flop, and you who has a bike shop that you transformed from inherited backyard auto repair shop knows better. You also with no qualification from any recognized trade school who just winged it. So you say your an expert. Yes maybe at the following statement.

As for septic, this is the term for the attacks you make on new users and to others who give advise.

Taffy said:

you measure how much the bike sunk at the rear and then that is what you raise the forks by at the front.

measure up to say the tip of the exhaust for example and then fit the X-bushing. measure again, it will be say 20mm lower. that is what the forks go up and through by. that is why I said you'll need bar risers.

by the way, if you're being anal, measuring to the seat before you move the forks and then after you move them will have moved the seat again because the fluids inside tipped.... it does your head in!

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

As for bar risers, a totally incorrect way to make room to alter your suspension forks/shocks. You should only put bar risers on if you are not in correct seating position, doing this can cause fatigue and put you at risk. As most of us know, we only usually make mistakes when we are tired.

Your front suspension geometry is defined by the following six variables which are defined as:


Offset Centerline of top of steering neck to centerline of top of fork tubes.
Rake The angle in degrees of the steering neck from the vertical.
Fork Length The distance between the top of the fork tubes to the centerline of the axle.
Diameter of the front tire.
Trail Distance defined by vertical line from axle to ground and intersect of centerline of steering neck and ground.
Calculations Tire Diameter:
Tire Diameter Formula: If you do not know a certain tire diameter use the following formula:
Diam Inches = Rim Diam Inches + [ (2 x Aspect Ratio x Section Width) / 25.4]
Example: 200/55R18 Tire:
26.7" = 18 + [(2 x 0.55 x 200)/25.4]

Thus saying, unless the frame angle has altered than the angles have not changed, Moving the shock with a offset bearing does not change the angle very much, thus moving the fork up into the tree the same as what the rear moved would throw your rake and trail way out. Thus the incorrect theory of figuring out anything (Backyard way of guessing) Build a chopper Taffy and then lets talk.

Check your rake and trail prior moving anything than move the rear and check the rake and trail again. Correct the rake and trail to stock specs and your fine.

Offset trees is one way
cutting steering mount on frame is another and the correct way as offset trees are not great.

Back to the point, the 4CS likes to be left alone with the offset bushing in place, it actually corrects a issue the 4CS has from factory for the average rider.

As for American, I am English you *******. Do you think Canada is in the USA. So I do understand the Queen English quite well.

FE350 said:

Raising the fork up means you lower it in the clamp stupid. .

Click to expand...

clear, anyone can follow that excellent piece of advice.

I trust you can still create sperm - this is the real tragedy

Taffy