Need help/recommendations to lower FE390

tourist said:

Comparing the price of a revalve + spacers to the cost of entire new suspension units is a liiiiittle bit apples to oranges I'd price it based on 1.: materials used, 2.: time spent, and 3.: compensation for expertise. Parts cost a few bucks; It takes an expert way less than a full day to revalve and lower front and rear. Then you add the cost of expertise and friendly service So the $1000 may be a good deal depending on what you get, but I just want to say that it's FOR SURE possible to do it for much less! Good-quality lowered suspension doesn't have to cost $1000!

(I really really hope I don't come across as pooh-pooing LadyBerg's choice of suspension service!! I have the feeling I do; I apologise and ask for understanding that English is not my native language and I have some trouble with the nuances of diplomacy )

But most importantly:

REVALVING IS NOT DONE BY DRILLING! It is done by carefully replacing and reordering a few metal shims inside your dampers; That set of shims is determined by extensive simulation with advanced software and thorough discussion

And revalving IS NOT guesswork.

The elements of suspension damping are very simple. However: the hydraulic calculations in practice are very complex, so it's very hard to intuit what's going on inside the dampers. BUT!! There is computer simulation that does this for us!

This means that a DIY revalve *is* reasonable and within the realm of mortals. Same goes for lowering.

DIY revalving goes like this: Someone measures the suspension internals, and inputs them into Shim Restackor. Simulations are run. Then by looking at the graphs and discussing ideas, people come up with ideas for new valve stacks with better behavior. These are run in the simulator. Then when the community feels they have a stack worth trying - and the Shim Restackor simulator is really very good and deep! - someone puts it in their bike. The process involves ordering some shims online, opening up the dampers front or rear, unscrewing the damping valve and replacing and reordering shims. Assemble, test on a stationary bike, then go for a careful test ride.

Please try a stock valved DR-Z. Designed by engineers. Then please try a correctly done DIY revalved DR-Z. The latter is obviously MUCH SAFER. The market DOES NOT capture engineers' expertise in suspension, but rather optimizes towards the customers' lack of experience and judgement, and poor official evaluation of suspension safety in practice. I'm SURE the engineers would like to put better suspension in stock bikes. In practice the beancounters win.

I have to state it again: REVALVING IS NOT DRILLING ANYTHING. It's not sailing blind either!

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I have read allot on people opening ports by drilling as per the point I was getting across what you read and what actually happens is a whole different story. Yes you can throw the figures into a calaulator but this is just a guess to how you ride and if it will work for you and yes for the average person this will cost as per the person setting it up. It takes allot to set a bike up for each individual person as we all ride different and are different weights ect. so what is good for one is not good for another. A oem bike is set up to work for the general population and when you change it by backyarding most of the time riders have no idea for the most part and just go with it. As for the DRZ only one model DRZ is sold as a motard bike and this has a different set up than the dual purpose bikes. Even with this they are a base dual purpose trail bike and an entry level bike with ****** components as per the price. No such thing as a dual purpose as you cant have both worlds and work great in all situations. With the price it captures a big crowd as after motarding it still comes in at the same cost as a high end bike. Cheap machine that is easy to motard and with that said when they are motarded they must be reworked. We cant even compare the drz suspension to a husa with WP as the WP parts are worth more than the whole DRZ. I wouldn't ever think of going into a serious single track trail on a DRZ as it would be an unsafe practice. Now to put up a logging road and go to the local starbucks maybe.

FE350 said:

We cant even compare the drz suspension to a husa with WP as the WP parts are worth more than the whole DRZ. I wouldn't ever think of going into a serious single track trail on a DRZ as it would be an unsafe practice. Now to put up a logging road and go to the local starbucks maybe.

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That's a bit harsh. The DRZ's suspension is dated, but I wouldn't call it cheap. I remember watching Mike Keidrowski tearing up some WORCS races years ago on a RSU forked DRZ. I'm pretty sure Showa suspended bikes have way more podium finishes than WP. The WP 4cs forks are a major hiccup on WP's recent credibility. 49mm Showas are fine for any below A trail or singletrack riding, and with a brace and proper tuning should be fine for 95% of riders IMO.

Huskyfatman said:

That's a bit harsh. The DRZ's suspension is dated, but I wouldn't call it cheap. I remember watching Mike Keidrowski tearing up some WORCS races years ago on a RSU forked DRZ. I'm pretty sure Showa suspended bikes have way more podium finishes than WP. The WP 4cs forks are a major hiccup on WP's recent credibility. 49mm Showas are fine for any below A trail or singletrack riding, and with a brace and proper tuning should be fine for 95% of riders IMO.

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I don't think it is harsh, The DRZ is in the same class as all the low end trail bikes as the TTR, CRF and KLX air cooled. The suspension is on the low end of quality. You can not compare the showa forked podium bikes forks even close to what the drz has in place, the forks are not the same by any means. When was the last time you saw a podium bike not have inverted forks?? The 2017 line up lol. Low end of the scale and an entry level machine. I don't think you will find one Husa, Husky, KTM that even has an entry level bike?




How can you compare? Of corse you would have to rework the whole machine to make it anything but a play toy. Sorry but apples are apples and oranges are oranges. Not even in the same class.

Also noting back in the day of Bob Hannah as so forth, Yes these bike won a ton of races but not one that came off an assembly line, they were are reworked and spent tons of money making them better. Stock was crap. When KTM came out with a ready to race bike that required nothing out of the box, high end everything they started to move into the north American market. Now they are at the top and all the jap bike copy what they have done. Back in the day a Yamaha yz was $1500 new and they handled like ****. You placed work parts everywhere. A Ktm was $5000 and you only had to adjust your sag bars and controls and away you went.
How could we compare a bike with 20 year old technology being used over a state of the art up to date machine. The DRZ's suspension looks the same as my 84 RM250 used. Why is this????? It would be for Suzuki to offer a cheap bike to the public such as Yamaha does with the TTR and so forth. You could ride a sport bike off road but why would you is my question?

Sorry to Falcolion as this thread has total went sideways

Back to the points and facts.

Forks and shocks are designed by engineers with years of experience. The bikes are set up with all metrics in place to make them work, be safe, and last.
These forks and shocks are designed to work as they were designed to do.

Now we get a bunch of back yard people, shops and others who think they know more. They take and rework something that has had thousands of hours spent making it work.

These shocks are not made to have spacers placed in them to lower. It takes away from travel and mucks with the whole design.

Engineering goes into everything about a machine. I guarantee that any lowered bike by way of shim will not perform better than stock as you do loose travel always. So jumping will be lower, whoops will be harsher and so on. It is not possible to lower a shock and keep its integrity and or performance it just basic metrics.

It is the same as one trying to get more power out of a motor, you can and for sure. But you have now taken away from the design and guaranteed the motor will not last as the stock one does, you will risk a catastrophic failure every time you ride and I would say this could be unsafe.

So when someone tells me a professional way to lower a bike is to shim a shock over moving to an offset bushing or cutting a seat then I laugh. My machine has the same metrics as stock. I never have problems with the suspension, my motor always runs and lasts. I have never blown an engine and do not use anything but oem parts for internals. I always ensure the bikes specs ore to manufacture recommendations. I do have the knowledge to screw with things and try to make it better as I am in that trade, but I stop to think and realize that I am just me and my knowledge could not possibly be better than a team of engineers who have been designing this item for years. Yes find the best solution to a problem but also don't fix something that is not broken to try and improve it. Yes the DRZ needs fixing as it is old technology but not one high end machine requires this. It is all about our learning curve to new technology, I hated the 4CS when I first got on it, now its the bomb. We will be hearing about KTMs new air ride very soon but once again it will be a learning curve for us. I guarantee everything gets better with advancement but its only us who think different as we don't like change.

FE350!; You really should consider speaking less in absolutes here, and also consider whether you may simply lack technical knowledge in suspension matters. You have now ventured into actively spreading misinformation. Can't accept. You are in incidentally also being quite dismissive in a less than polite manner of information I have spent some effort to present here in clear and accessible writing, backed up with sources and technical detail, in order to open up the world of suspension to newcomers.

The base WP suspension hardware is widely discussed as being quite average; Doing the job but nothing more. It is certainly nonsense that the WP parts are "worth more than a whole DRZ".

Conventional vs. upside down forks: Upside down has less unsprung weight and looks cooler. Conventional are stiffer and therefore smoother and plusher in a different way (and they need less servicing). Conventional are arguably better for non-competition use. But still aggressive riding!

The DRZ suspension units are good quality. It is only the stock valving that is awful. The forks and shock are robust, smooth, very plush, very strong and essentially maintenance-free. The drawback - the only drawback - is that they are a little bit heavy. Simply because they are relatively oversized. And let me tell you I have studied these units quite extensively. The hardware is good.

And most importantly: It is ENTIRELY REASONABLE TO DIY REVALVE AND LOWER WITH SPACERS; This is how the pro shops do it!

Reduced travel is simply compensated for by stiffer spring rate and valving to control bottoming. That's it.

FE350 said:

I don't think it is harsh, The DRZ is in the same class as all the low end trail bikes as the TTR, CRF and KLX air cooled. The suspension is on the low end of quality. You can not compare the showa forked podium bikes forks even close to what the drz has in place, the forks are not the same by any means. When was the last time you saw a podium bike not have inverted forks?? The 2017 line up lol. Low end of the scale and an entry level machine. I don't think you will find one Husa, Husky, KTM that even has an entry level bike?
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How can you compare? Of corse you would have to rework the whole machine to make it anything but a play toy. Sorry but apples are apples and oranges are oranges. Not even in the same class.

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First off, I'm not a DRZ fan. There's plenty to complain about on that bike, and the suspension is probably last on the list. I'm also not a fan of RSU forks per-se. I swapped out the flimsy wet noodle like front end on my old KDX for USD KX500 units and it was a huge improvement.

Geez, I can't believe you're getting me to defend DRZ's or RSU forks but dude, there is no way you can compare the 49mm 11.4" travel, cartridge fork on the DRZ to a non cartridge, short travel, with tons of underhang, scrawny POS forks on the play bikes. Look at your pics fer christsakes. Seriously-no way bro!

And FYI, the twin chamber 49mm RSU fork that came on the late '90s RM's are revered as some of the best trail forks ever. You need to take a spin on a KTM or Berg with some 50mm Extremes before you say RSU forks suck.

I'll tell you what sucks. Plopping down the coin on a new KTBergavarna with 4CS forks that require lots of work just to make decent. My '05 650 Berg and every Yamaha I've bought since '89 have had great suspension out of the box only requiring springs at the most.

You seem like a very helpful person on this site, and that's much appreciated, but with all due respect, some of your suggestions seemed cut and pasted, like lowering a composite subframe, and a lowing link suggested for PDS?

Look, you and I agree on the X-bushings and lower seats for the PDS bikes - great. I'm not a suspension expert (& apparently neither are you) so maybe it's best we stick to giving advice that we have personal experience with.

Huskyfatman said:

First off, I'm not a DRZ fan. There's plenty to complain about on that bike, and the suspension is probably last on the list. I'm also not a fan of RSU forks per-se. I swapped out the flimsy wet noodle like front end on my old KDX for USD KX500 units and it was a huge improvement. Yes it would be lol

Geez, I can't believe you're getting me to defend DRZ's or RSU forks but dude, there is no way you can compare the 49mm 11.4" travel, cartridge fork on the DRZ to a non cartridge, short travel, with tons of underhang, scrawny POS forks on the play bikes. Look at your pics fer christsakes. Seriously-no way bro! I was making a point

And FYI, the twin chamber 49mm RSU fork that came on the late '90s RM's are revered as some of the best trail forks ever. You need to take a spin on a KTM or Berg with some 50mm Extremes before you say RSU forks suck.
Best ever lmfao old technology maybe for their time, but not nowadays thus the reason they are no longer

I'll tell you what sucks. Plopping down the coin on a new KTBergavarna with 4CS forks that require lots of work just to make decent. My '05 650 Berg and every Yamaha I've bought since '89 have had great suspension out of the box only requiring springs at the most.As per your feel, only required springs, it should require nothing, my 4cs are fine right out of the box needing nothing but adjustment

You seem like a very helpful person on this site, and that's much appreciated, but with all due respect, some of your suggestions seemed cut and pasted, like lowering a composite subframe, and a lowing link suggested for PDS? As below

Look, you and I agree on the X-bushings and lower seats for the PDS bikes - great. I'm not a suspension expert (& apparently neither are you) so maybe it's best we stick to giving advice that we have personal experience with.

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Please don't speak for me as I am qualified and certified to work at any dealership from motorcycles to automobiles

LOL, I am just making a statement that running spacers in a shock that was designed to the spec without is no better than shaving a seat and by no means a professional fix even if shops with professionals do it, All points of lowering are screwing with oe design. I am giving advise on what I feel is safe and better as per my personal experience.

I do like the synergy bushing as it is safe and doesn't screw with anything other than a boss that is engineered to over withstand the force designed for.

As for the 90's forks. Allot has happened in the last twenty years including technology. So tell me once that a bike with a comparable rider from the ninety's would even qualify to bikes of today and I would call ********. I have owned and rode bikes from the seventy's up until our current date and by no means would ever compare a outdated twenty year old system to todays.
Yes the DRZ's have old technology and with that said the reason is per the price. Suzuki will not put a high end shock and or fork in a entry level bike and if you ask any dealership they will tell you that it is a dual sport made for easy trail riding as well hwy use and nothing more. You get what you pay for.

As for the synergy bushing and info on it cutting and pasting. Just this last month I have lowered three units right out of the dealership. I give advise based on my personal feelings and experience lol just as everyone does. I do like the synergy product and am thinking of becoming a dealer in my area for all their products as they seem to work well and have a huge market, so this says something.

"You seem like a very helpful person on this site, and that's much appreciated, but with all due respect, some of your suggestions seemed cut and pasted, like lowering a composite subframe, and a lowing link suggested for PDS?"

Now, I don't know where lowering link and PDS came in the same conversation as PDS does not have links and I for one should know that as my bike and the last three I have lowered are PDS. I am not a big fan of PDS but do own one and do use the x bushing that works just great, Fast fix, cheap and doesn't screw with anything safety related. As for lowering a composite frame? I do not have any experience with this and never screw with frames.

Lowering your position on a bike by shaving a seat is a very viable option and a smart one as per the millions of lower seats the manufactures sell. This is about the best way to get seat height down.

I feel strongly about people without experience playing with forks and shocks as I have seen allot of messed up machines and seen allot of accidents because of this, So I will always advise one to stay away from playing. I have seen forks moved down so far that bar spacers have been used, I have also seen springs so loose that the bike would feel as if it had a flat tire while riding. This tells me that allot of people advise doing these things who put riders in danger.

Technology happens and most old technology is updated for a reason or we would all be using wooden wheels lol, allot of people get stuck on old technology eg: carburation vs fuel inj. Ect.. Yes all our old stuff worked and some worked well, but it by no means is anything other than outdated to what we have today. This is why riders are getting faster, jumps higher and so on. Its all facts as I would hate to see a x-games rider use a 80's machine (actually it might be fun to watch the suspension fall apart lol)

I feel all opinions on this site are great and think it is great people debate upon what they believe in so please don't take this to be in your face lol, I am just expressing my personal opinions not bashing anything but Suzuki haha

Falcolion said:

Wow. Discussion went rampant over here and way off topic. In any case I did a lot of reading on this forum as well as Thumper talk, Adventure rider and KTM forums. I came to conclusion that suspension could be lowered by professionals w/excellent reputation and for a lot less then $1000.
1. Race Tech. Awesome company with wealth of knowledge. They can do both shock and forks for about $860

2. Enduro Engineering. Great company with awesome line of products. Their service is priced super right at $325 for both front and rear. All the reviews I have read are only have praise for service and suspension knowledge.

I definitely need it lowered. Took the bike out today to Lost Trails in Pennsylvania, next to American Warhorse dealership. If anyone knows the area, I am sure you would agree it's not the easiest one for a beginner. I had a lot of fun but I also hit the deck 8-10 times today. All slow speed falls but picking up the bike gets progressively heavier. 1st 3 times I thought to myself that bike is pretty light but obviously it was progressively getting heavier. Lol. It's like doing deadlifts in the gym. But my biggest problem was that I could not get on the bike without a rock, tree trunk or just deep rut and putting the bike in it. Yeap, I definetely have short legs. So, will be sending both front forks and the shock to Enduro Enginering.
2 inches lowering should be fine and shaving down a seat will cut down additional 15mm.

Seat wise Husaberg is 38.8 inches when WR250 is only 36.8 inches. I sat on my friends WR250 and I sure could touch the ground with at least one foot.

As for talk about professional riders and their suspension, I can say I am far from professional. Still need a lot of practice

I also decided from now on I will purchase street-dirt crossover helmet with a normal shield. Since I wear glasses, it will be way better then any OTG goggles. These goggles DON'T WORK! At least not for me. I have tried regular off-road helmet before on my previous KTM and didn't like, tried them when riding snowmobile and completely hated them. Never put them on cause it was fogging my glasses. Today was a final confirmation that I will be going with dual purpose helmet with a shield!!!

Another thing I noticed with the bike was that the throttle is way too sensitive and not too progressive. It's either slow or all over sudden full steam ahead. Can anything be done? Maybe changing throttle cam? But then to which one?

One more thing I noticed that I had problem finding neutral. Only when the bike is off is when I could get neutral

If anyone knows the answers or can recommend something then please chime in

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I am so glad you went out riding today, I hope you had a blast. Enduro engineering for the price is fine, sending parts out is not. You need to be on the machine to set it and that is fact. So take the machine to them and have them set you up if this is the shop of choice. Set your sag, probably more important than lowering the suspension lol. You will find tons of info on your machine about this complaint I am positive,

Best wishes and keep the shiny side up

FE350 said:

sending parts out is not. You need to be on the machine to set it and that is fact.

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False. Source? Technical reason? What exactly is it that the shop needs to do with the rider on the bike?

It is absolutely fine to send the suspension units out. The vendor lowers the travel and may revalve for rider. Then the rider simply sets the sag and front stance and off they go. Sag and stance is trivial to set; It's actually a fun job to do outside the house with a buddy or family.

Re. helmets: I've got the ATV AX8 DS. It's very nice! Lightweight but still a full DS helmet; Not too expensive, especially not at a discount which can often be found somewhere

Throttle response: G2 Throttle Cam gets good marks. Couple of other things to try is adjusting throttle cable slack and activating the "mild" ignition map. Can be done by map switch (some $) or by adding an inline resistor to the wiring in a certain spot (less nice but can be good for trying it out). There are some threads on it here.

I'd start with the throttle cable. Throttle response on the 70-degrees is very smooth and linear, so it sounds like there is a hiccup or snag or kink somewhere in the system.

Re. neutral: Neutral on these bikes is quite tight! It's a side effect of the gearbox design which is overall very good. Fortunately there's a little trick to it that becomes second nature. It's way easier to pop into neutral in motion - some find it easier to come from 2nd into N than from 1st. The trick is to kinda push gently on the shifter as you come to a stop, to do it in one fluid motion. I assure you it quickly becomes feel / second nature Some threads with better descriptions on here.

(The 70-degrees can have relatively long oil change intervals (see Lost Riders' posts on advrider), but good fresh oil does make a difference in the gearbox. It's more a question of the one weird trick )

It may seem there's a lot to learn but none of it is difficult per se. Just a few small things that fuse into an enjoyable experience as you go. Congrats on the bike!

Thought re. the throttle response: It can be so many small things; Could be good to get someone with a bit of experience to give the bike a go and see how they feel about it and give some hints.

OMG boys this thread is like reading a soap opera :giggle:

Thank you Tourist in trying to calm everyone down and adding some common sense and known solutions to the drama of lowering a bike. The one question I have to ask is....have the naysayers ever actually lowered a bike done by someone who does suspension? Well I sure have and it's been wonderful, money well spent and I'm out having fun riding.

BTW the DRZ comments were hilarious, that was my first dirt bike years ago and I used to ride it on a MX course with the lights blazing. It was a hoot until I bottomed it out on the jumps after getting better or I had to pick the big pig up after crashing. Cheers

"Reduced travel is simply compensated for by stiffer spring rate and valving to control bottoming. That's it."

Now with adding a heavier spring, do we think that setting the sag might be a bit hard if the rider is light as most short riders are? Yes dampening will take up some, but then again we are screwing with the whole purpose of travel, dampening and spring weight. If we have to change one then you will need to change all. Thus leaving the rider who does jump high or hit hard and is light weight with issues, such as a incorrect set up. Sag is very important. A standard rider will not know or feel difference in valving but will notice the feel of a heavy spring and or soft spring. I am sorry but travel is a very important part of the ride and yes shops can set this by way of moving different metrics in different directions but you will always lack somewhere when doing this. A stiffer spring and re-valving might control the bottoming out but for sure will create issues elsewhere as the ride sag will be way to stiff.

Anyways the moral here is

I believe that screwing with suspension is a incorrect way to lower as you will sacrifice a few things that I believe is dangerous.

Some believe this is fine and that's ok.

I was not meaning to step on toes here, just give my personal opinion as others do. I always stand for things I believe in.

I am just glad our questioner got out to ride and is finding solutions to his issues

Lady berg is on to it. If use spaces don't go more than 30mm for a number If reasons. The best way and best lowering result is by taking the seat foam off and carving from the bottom of the front like taking a bread bun shape from the middle of the front leaving the sides. glue in softer foam and refit seat base and cover. Think about the carve. You end up the seat and geometry frame relationship the same even when cornering since you push on the peg to corner properly. The soft foam comes into play when you stop or make and mistake cornering and thereby putting extra weight on soft foam. lower forks max and have sag on shock 35/ 110 which is best for pass.

fwiw, i dropped my 650 34mm by adding 10mm of shock spacers.

There is one for motard which is lower. But if I were you I would use a hacksaw and cut it.